Free Will and God, the issue..

Inb4 all that 'god is omnipotent and we can't comprehend his motives' BS.

In Islam it is taught that you have free will, you can choose the Apple over the Orange or vice versa.

Take Adam and Eve for example, did God know what they would do, did He know they would go against his orders and pick a fruit from the tree He said not to?

Now if you say no He didn't know, then comes the problem of omniscience, if He doesn't know something He cannot be 'all knowing' can He.

But let's say you answer with yes, He did, He knew exactly what was going to happen and watched, this poses a problem, if He knew this then what was the point of ordering them and then punishing them, He knew they would sin, so in the larger scale of things He made it happen, He invented this chain of events.

So why do anything?

Thoughts are welcome as always.

Let's say you answer 'yes, but He knows what happens after you choose, He knows what things will happen after you decide, this brings back the issue from the second text, so there really is no logical answer which you can respond with without removing omniscience from the picture or making it so that all events are programmed by God, so there is no point in anything.

Discuss.

Inb4 all that 'god is omnipotent and we can't comprehend his motives' BS.

Is that not a reasonable statement? It's certainly coherent with the definitive ontological characteristics of God. If humans are to fully understand and know the properties and ways of God then faith is empty and purposeless.

Just as you cannot have faith that apples fall from trees, you cannot have faith in a God that is of immediate recognition and complete understanding to the human mind.

Makes me wonder what a person's political stance is if they follow that line of thought.

In Islam it is taught that you have free will, you can choose the Apple over the Orange or vice versa.

Take Adam and Eve for example, did God know what they would do, did He know they would go against his orders and pick a fruit from the tree He said not to?

Now if you say no He didn't know, then comes the problem of omniscience, if He doesn't know something He cannot be 'all knowing' can He.

But let's say you answer with yes, He did, He knew exactly what was going to happen and watched, this poses a problem, if He knew this then what was the point of ordering them and then punishing them, He knew they would sin, so in the larger scale of things He made it happen, He invented this chain of events.

So why do anything?

Thoughts are welcome as always.

Let's say you answer 'yes, but He knows what happens after you choose, He knows what things will happen after you decide, this brings back the issue from the second text, so there really is no logical answer which you can respond with without removing omniscience from the picture or making it so that all events are programmed by God, so there is no point in anything.

Discuss.

Yes, faith is "empty and purposeless".


Obvious illogic on the part of claimed "all-powerful" deities is just evidence that they're man-mad

Is that not a reasonable statement? It's certainly coherent with the definitive ontological characteristics of God. If humans are to fully understand and know the properties and ways of God then faith is empty and purposeless. Just as you cannot have faith that apples fall from trees, you cannot have faith in a God that is of immediate recognition and complete understanding to the human mind.

There's nothing illogical about omnipotence. If it's the "God can't lift rock" argument you refer to then you should understand that that, like any other antitheist argument, has it's validity based purely in incorrect presuppositions about what omnipotence is.

Free will is an illusion in religion. Look at Christianity, they believe that reason is determined by the soul, but they also believe that God created the soul. Therefore God created your reason and choices. You can't have it both ways.

To claim that you'd have to fully know God...and yet you claim he doesn't exist. It's either one or the other. You can't claim both.

Obvious illogic on the part of claimed "all-powerful" deities is just evidence that they're man-made.

Surely that assumes that in creating the soul, God determined its future? Or that from it's inception, the rationality of the soul is predetermined by the properties it is given?

It would be coherent with the characteristics of a god. However, it relies on the presupposition that one exists. There is zero good evidence that there is a god, and no good reason to believe there is one. Thus, the statement has no foundation.



Omnipotence is illogical. Every definitive piece of evidence we've ever collected leads us to the conclusion that the universe follows laws which are absolute. Breaking them would be impossible, and would make no sense. There is no reason to believe omnipotence could be a thing.