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Advanced Subsidiary
Yes that's understandable. However for humans. Men and women. There is nothing a man can do that a woman cannot excluding intensive exercises that require strength. That's the only main difference between the two genders. Men are stronger, women are weaker. Why should we treat you differently just because you're weaker? Besides, women can become as strong as the average man with little work. Seriously.


I agree with you. What I am arguing is that men and women are different in their strengths and their weaknesses. They may be able to do the same things but men/women might do them more efficiently and to a higher standard than the other gender.
O-Ren

I have never argued this. What you don't seem to understand is, the reason why it would be wrong for the average strength man to hit the average strength woman is because of the difference in strength. If the average strength man hit a man who had the same strength as the average woman (i.e. he was an extremely weak man) it would be just as wrong.

If whether hitting someone is right or wrong is defined by strength, it isn't wrong for me to hit a man of the same or greater strength than me? Really?
aeonflux
Errr, no.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_humans

The list is quite extensive and goes well beyond brute force and strength, although that is perhaps the most obvious difference.


I read the page. So this is the reason why they should be treated differently?
Reply 123
blinkbelle
Why are you asking me the same question I answered. Women and men should not be treated the same, because they are not the same. How is that difficult to understand?!


Oh my dear girl,

Explain to me the fundamental differences between men and women, in your own words.
Advanced Subsidiary
I read the page. So this is the reason why they should be treated differently?

Yes. Men and women are different and hence are treated differently all the time - for example separate male/female changing rooms/bathrooms.

Of course that doesn't mean men and women should face unequal opportunities. It is possible to acknowledge that men and women are different and will be treated accordingly whilst still ensuring equal rights.
blinkbelle
I agree with you. What I am arguing is that men and women are different in their strengths and their weaknesses. They may be able to do the same things but men/women might do them more efficiently and to a higher standard than the other gender.


Oh sure I agree there too. In certain activities men excel and others females excel, which is understandable but by how far do they excel? They excel, yes but not by a large margin i'm sure. Again I'm not sure if they should be treated differently.

I'm sure it was stated somewhere that women are better than men at doing coursework where men were better at hand-written examinations. Once more I don't think it's a good reason why women should be treated differently.

I know there are lots of differences between the two genders, yet no-one has given me a solid reason why women should be protected by men just because they're women or why women should never have to pay for their drink or even why it's acceptable for women to expect men to ask them out because they're men.
aeonflux
Yes. Men and women are different and hence are treated differently all the time - for example separate male/female changing rooms/bathrooms.

Of course that doesn't mean men and women should face unequal opportunities.


That's understandable however I don't see how in society, women have to be protected 24/7 or should take the back seat when we're on a day out.

Added comment:

Spoiler

Reply 127
Advanced Subsidiary
Let's treat black and white men differently, since it's "proven" that white people are far superior in intelligence and more civilised right?


Sounds valid.
O-Ren
Oh my dear girl,

Explain to me the fundamental differences between men and women, in your own words.


:no: You are being extremely rude and patronising.

On what basis do you regard yourself as being more superior/knowledgeable on this issue than the others in this thread?

I doubt that I am 'very stupid' :rolleyes: in fact, if you're resorting to petty insults this is merely a reflection of yourself and your inabiity to rationally debate a topic.

What are your reasons for men and women being treated the same?
Advanced Subsidiary

I know there are lots of differences between the two genders, yet no-one has given me a solid reason why women should be protected by men just because they're women or why women should never have to pay for their drink or even why it's acceptable for women to expect men to ask them out because they're men.


I don't think women should be protected by men, etc. When I refer to men and women being treated differently, I'm not talking about social etiquette xx
To be honest, I'm pretty much a man who wears skirts and dresses. :borat:

...Well, there are some obvious genetical differences, but I enjoy 'laddish' conversations, watching the football and using crude humour... even in the football stands, where one would expect men to be at their most chauvinistic, I've never been treated any differently for wearing a skirt and having a squeaky girl's voice, and I'd like it to stay that way.

I'm probably more manly than most of the men I know :mmm:
ciawhobat
Sounds valid.


Whoever thought multiculturalism would work perfectly was wrong.
blinkbelle
I don't think women should be protected by men, etc. When I refer to men and women being treated differently, I'm not talking about social etiquette xx


Oh, i've been reading this wrong then. Sorry.
Reply 133
aeonflux
If whether hitting someone is right or wrong is defined by strength, it isn't wrong for me to hit a man of the same or greater strength than me? Really?


Oh dear Lordy

If you'd followed my posts from the beginning, you will see I said that it is always wrong to randomly start on someone.

It is far more wrong if the person you start on is so much weaker than you they are clearly unable to defend themselves.
Advanced Subsidiary
That's understandable however I don't see how in society, women have to be protected 24/7 or should take the back seat when we're on a day out.

Who said either of those things had to be the case? Generally men are physically stronger and are biologically predisposed to protect women, but theres no reason why you should feel you have to do anything. If you are a woman and don't want men protecting you, don't let them. Likewise if you are a man and don't want to protect women feel free not to, I don't think anyone cares. However from my experience the majority of women like to feel protected by men, be it family or boyfriends or whatever, and the majority of men like to protect women.

Added comment:
EDIT: Let's treat black and white men differently, since it's "proven" that white people are far superior in intelligence and more civilised right?

Oh wait, it already happens.

What? It isn't proven that white people are superior in intelligence, in fact there are very few proven non-physical differences between races. On the other hand all the differences between men and women in the wiki article I linked you are proven. Analogy fail.
Reply 135
Advanced Subsidiary
Whoever thought multiculturalism would work perfectly was wrong.


I'll say!
O-Ren
Oh dear Lordy

If you'd followed my posts from the beginning, you will see I said that it is always wrong to randomly start on someone.

It is far more wrong if the person you start on is so much weaker than you they are clearly unable to defend themselves.

I don't really agree with this. I think going and randomly hitting world's strongest man is just as morally unjustifiable as hitting anyone else. Sure the consequences may be different (if I hit worlds strongest man I'm going to get my ass kicked) but the action in itself is just as wrong no matter who it is directed at.
Reply 137
blinkbelle
:no: You are being extremely rude and patronising.

On what basis do you regard yourself as being more superior/knowledgeable on this issue than the others in this thread?

I doubt that I am 'very stupid' :rolleyes: in fact, if you're resorting to petty insults this is merely a reflection of yourself and your inabiity to rationally debate a topic.

What are your reasons for men and women being treated the same?


On the basis that I've backed up everything I've said with reason. If men and women are so obviously different - and deserve to be treated as such - you would have had no problem pointing out these differences and winning the argument. You have yet to do that.

Go back to page 3. First post. It's very short.

Just because I'm insulting you doesn't mean I'm irrational, it would only be irrational if all I was doing was insulting you. As it happens I'm trying to debate with you but it is impossble because you are refusing to back up your assertion.
Advanced Subsidiary
Huh? I think you'll find that we actually would like to be treated like human beings actually.


Eh? Is that a joke? :s-smilie:
aeonflux
Who said either of those things had to be the case? Generally men are physically stronger and are biologically predisposed to protect women, but theres no reason why you should feel you have to do anything. If you are a woman and don't want men protecting you, don't let them. Likewise if you are a man and don't want to protect women feel free not to, I don't think anyone cares. However from my experience the majority of women like to feel protected by men, be it family or boyfriends or whatever, and the majority of men like to protect women.


Since I'm a guy, If you punch me for no reason and then I punch you back. It's ok. I agree with that. Fair is fair.

Now if a woman did the exact same thing you did and then I punch her back, I'd get the beating of a lifetime, why is this?


What? It isn't proven that white people are superior in intelligence, in fact there are very few proven non-physical differences between races. On the other hand all the differences between men and women in the wiki article I linked you are proven. Analogy fail.

I put it in speech marks because I don't believe it's true at all.

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