Lower offers Watch

abbymonty
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Why do universities make lower offers than what their prospectus and website say?
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Origami Bullets
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Usually because they particularly like the applicant, or the applicant has contextual flags (crap school, in care, low participation neighbourhood etc)

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nulli tertius
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(Original post by abbymonty)
Why do universities make lower offers than what their prospectus and website say?
There are two other reasons. Sometimes universities misjudge the attractiveness of a course and change offers after the prospectus has gone to press. A university can only raise offers before it has made any offers (because of the need for equal consideration) but every year a few applicants find that their original offer is later reduced because a university has found that it needs to reduce offers to fill places.

This year, there are one or two signs of tactically inflated standard grades in prospectuses. As some applicants evaluate the worth of a course by its asking grades, the university sets these higher than the actual offers it is intending to make.
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Carnationlilyrose
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
There are two other reasons. Sometimes universities misjudge the attractiveness of a course and change offers after the prospectus has gone to press. A university can only raise offers before it has made any offers (because of the need for equal consideration) but every year a few applicants find that their original offer is later reduced because a university has found that it needs to reduce offers to fill places.

This year, there are one or two signs of tactically inflated standard grades in prospectuses. As some applicants evaluate the worth of a course by its asking grades, the university sets these higher than the actual offers it is intending to make.
They cut it very fine. Three years ago there was a rash of universities who changed their prospectuses to put the grades up at the end of September, after the early birds in my form had sent their applications off. Since they had listened carefully to my advice and been very careful to spread their applications across a range of universities, they were understandably dismayed to find that range had disappeared overnight as the universities capitalised on the rush of students trying to beat the fee increases.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by carnationlilyrose)
They cut it very fine. Three years ago there was a rash of universities who changed their prospectuses to put the grades up at the end of September, after the early birds in my form had sent their applications off. Since they had listened carefully to my advice and been very careful to spread their applications across a range of universities, they were understandably dismayed to find that range had disappeared overnight as the universities capitalised on the rush of students trying to beat the fee increases.
I am aware of a course that wanted to do the same, but they had given out one non-contextual "standard" offer at the original level and university admin wouldn't let them do it.

The people that lose out when grades are dropped late in the cycle are those who have previously been rejected. Those with places find that their offers go down, but no-one revisits the reject pile. There is the same effect when grades are dropped in clearing.
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Carnationlilyrose
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
I am aware of a course that wanted to do the same, but they had given out one non-contextual "standard" offer at the original level and university admin wouldn't let them do it.

The people that lose out when grades are dropped late in the cycle are those who have previously been rejected. Those with places find that their offers go down, but no-one revisits the reject pile. There is the same effect when grades are dropped in clearing.
It's a pretty brutal system whichever way you slice it. Glad I and mine are past that stage now. I don't have the nerves for it any more.
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goodmummy
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This year, there are one or two signs of tactically inflated standard grades in prospectuses. As some applicants evaluate the worth of a course by its asking grades, the university sets these higher than the actual offers it is intending to make.[/QUOTE]

As long as entry requirements form part of the scoring criteria for league tables this will continue to be a problem. I was told 3 years ago by an experienced admissions tutor who had worked at several unis that entry grade inflation is common to make unis appear better. Lots of places ask high but ultimately fill courses with students who achieve nowhere near those grades - which makes it very difficult for students to make choices when it isn't transparent.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by carnationlilyrose)
It's a pretty brutal system whichever way you slice it. Glad I and mine are past that stage now. I don't have the nerves for it any more.
A bit like boxing, it is a better as a spectator.
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Carnationlilyrose
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(Original post by goodmummy)
This year, there are one or two signs of tactically inflated standard grades in prospectuses. As some applicants evaluate the worth of a course by its asking grades, the university sets these higher than the actual offers it is intending to make.
As long as entry requirements form part of the scoring criteria for league tables this will continue to be a problem. I was told 3 years ago by an experienced admissions tutor who had worked at several unis that entry grade inflation is common to make unis appear better. Lots of places ask high but ultimately fill courses with students who achieve nowhere near those grades - which makes it very difficult for students to make choices when it isn't transparent.[/QUOTE]
That's very true. It's a filtering mechanism. Any medical student will tell you that you don't need the incredibly high academic achievements they are asked for in order to do the actual course, which has large chunks of rote learning in, but it's the only way to put a lid on the number of people who would otherwise apply.
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Carnationlilyrose
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
A bit like boxing, it is a better as a spectator.
Very much so. I do get pleasure from seeing my students get the offers they want (and nearly always deserve) and I am sorry when they are rejected, which is mercifully uncommon, since they are sensible in their choices, but I have no desire at all to experience it first hand any more.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by goodmummy)

As long as entry requirements form part of the scoring criteria for league tables this will continue to be a problem. I was told 3 years ago by an experienced admissions tutor who had worked at several unis that entry grade inflation is common to make unis appear better. Lots of places ask high but ultimately fill courses with students who achieve nowhere near those grades - which makes it very difficult for students to make choices when it isn't transparent.
It has tendered to be those who fill up in clearing because until 2 years ago grades were rising at the top end. With the greater competition that the ABB+ policy has brought about, it has spread up the food chain.

The Birmingham experiment of unconditional offers has also spread. Leicester are giving them out this year. I don't know if anywhere else will do so.
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goodmummy
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(Original post by carnationlilyrose)
It's a pretty brutal system whichever way you slice it. Glad I and mine are past that stage now. I don't have the nerves for it any more.
This is my third and final time (well 4th really as daughter one went round twice). I'm very glad I won't have to do it again - fingers crossed!
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Carnationlilyrose
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(Original post by goodmummy)
This is my third and final time (well 4th really as daughter one went round twice). I'm very glad I won't have to do it again - fingers crossed!
Good luck. My two have graduated and the younger one is doing an MA now, so I think the applications have stopped now. I still get it every year for my surrogate children at school, though.
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shahidk1
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So there is a chance that some Universities can have a lowered offer depending on the mental problems, personal reasons why you haven't achieved the grades especially if you came from a bad shool in terms of their GCSE pass rate including english and Maths?
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Carnationlilyrose
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(Original post by shahidk1)
So there is a chance that some Universities can have a lowered offer depending on the mental problems, personal reasons why you haven't achieved the grades especially if you came from a bad shool in terms of their GCSE pass rate including english and Maths?
Sometimes. They will make the lower offer in their grade range if they feel you have mitigating circumstances, but it will be up to them what they accept as such and it won't be a big difference in grades. You still have to be able to manage the course and they aren't charities.
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goodmummy
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(Original post by carnationlilyrose)
Good luck. My two have graduated and the younger one is doing an MA now, so I think the applications have stopped now. I still get it every year for my surrogate children at school, though.
Thank you. From what I've read of your posts your pupils are very lucky to have someone who is so knowledgeable about the process and who cares so much.

I see you are a Manchester graduate - did my PGCE there many moons ago!
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shahidk1
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(Original post by carnationlilyrose)
Sometimes. They will make the lower offer in their grade range if they feel you have mitigating circumstances, but it will be up to them what they accept as such and it won't be a big difference in grades. You still have to be able to manage the course and they aren't charities.
I have had a rough time in my early years fo my secondary school. The school that i go to don't do as well as they should do by getting below the national average GCSE pass rate (including Maths and English)
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Carnationlilyrose
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(Original post by goodmummy)
Thank you. From what I've read of your posts your pupils are very lucky to have someone who is so knowledgeable about the process and who cares so much.

I see you are a Manchester graduate - did my PGCE there many moons ago!
Aww, thank you!

I am a Manchester grad, but I did my PGCE at the Poly. I did work as subject mentor for both the uni and MMU for about 8 years, so I could even have supervised you!
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Carnationlilyrose
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(Original post by shahidk1)
I have had a rough time in my early years fo my secondary school. The school that i go to don't do as well as they should do by getting below the national average GCSE pass rate (including Maths and English)
Well, it's done on a case by case basis, so no one can tell you except the admissions tutors, I'm afraid.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by shahidk1)
So there is a chance that some Universities can have a lowered offer depending on the mental problems, personal reasons why you haven't achieved the grades especially if you came from a bad shool in terms of their GCSE pass rate including english and Maths?
Very much so.

Although every university has a different policy on contextual factors, you can try out Manchester's school and residential factors.

http://documents.manchester.ac.uk/di...spx?DocID=8130

http://www.manchester.ac.uk/undergra...ata/indicator/
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