Best Uni&#x27;s in London...

woody1989

First of all I'd like to ask what is the best University in London?

My next is does anyone recommend [maybe, because they are at it] a University that does a course, similar to Criminal Justice Studies or Crimminology.

I have applied to UEL; Westminster and Greenwich but they have alot of negative feedback on this forum, which is ashame...

... Thanks so much, all!

Woody, out of the three uni's above, Westminster surpasses them by far - Westminster is an ex-poly, but not a "Margaret Thatcher" inspired polytechnic, it has a long proud history with an ethos behind it. It's tried to keep this ethos up by being more inclusive than most universities - this was what it was originally set up to do in the 1800 hundreds. Alexander Fleming went to Westminster, one of the halls is named after him - it works with MIT in the states on tissue engineering and is very research led. The student union has some brilliant media offshoots - the radio station is brilliant and has won awards, so has the smoke paper and they are working on a smoke television station for the university.

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1945/fleming-bio.html

http://k1.ioe.ac.uk/is/archives/Beginnings/begswest.html

http://www.uwsu.com/DisplayPage.asp?pageid=14277

What I would do, is research individual university profiles from the HERO website, including the last Research Assessment Exercise in 2001 (you'll find Westminster scores very highly (Greenwich and UEL don't even get a look in), also its Law department gained a score of 5 in the last assessment - highest is 5*) - it also has the most research intensive law department with apparently the most PhD students than any other department in the country.

www.hero.ac.uk

http://www.hero.ac.uk/rae/rae_dynamic.cfm?myURL=http://195.194.167.103/results/byinst/H-0083.htm

http://www.hero.ac.uk/uk/universities___colleges/london/university_of_westminster.cfm

http://www.wmin.ac.uk/page-108

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Westminster

http://www.brockportabroad.com/england/universities/england_uow.html

http://www.wminac-paris.org/Paris-centre.html

The league tables - especially the times (the Guardian ranks Westminster pretty high) are based on things like, student spend (how much a university spends per student on facilities), drop out rates etc. Westminster still has a relatively high drop out rate, in some departments it can ask for an AAB at A level (Law and Psychology), yet for some business courses the entry requirements are very low, e.g. CC.

I think they are working on this - it doesn't help with the statistics. In addition, you'll find that most of the poorer ex-polys languishing at the bottom of the Times league tables, are London universities, London is very expensive which is also a contributing factor.

I mean if you want to be central and study at a decent university - you can't go wrong with Westminster. I've included a load of links above so you can have a look at the history of Westminster, for example, Lunn Poly is an historical offshoot of Westminster: The first escorted tour by air to Switzerland was arranged by the Polytechnic Touring Association on May 14th 1932. The Touring Association became a substantial business and in the 1960s, the firm of Henry Lunn Ltd took it over to form Lunn Poly, one of the country's leading travel retailers. The fact that you see so many Prêt a Manger round London, the founders went to Westminster

I wouldn’t listen to people who are elitist and read the Times, you need to do your own research and look to approved sources – you also need to visit places yourself to find out if you’ll even like it. Nothing worse than going to a university (no matter how good) and absolutely hating it. Speak to lecturers and students who attend to see how they are getting on. Good luck with everything.

Reply 22

woody1989

OP

C D Forever, you're an absolute god!

Really are a credit to this website.

Thank you so much.

Reply 23

Crazster

16

benben

And that was answered with "The University of London". Debating the relative merits of the colleges within it based on your own personal criteria is utterly pointless. Thanks for recommending Imperial, UCL and LSE when only one of them actually offers any courses relevant to what the OP was asking for...

Crazster

Hey, Thanks for the speech, maybe next time you can READ the FIRST LINE of the OP's post

"Which is the best university in London"

thanks.

...

Reply 24

woody1989

C D Forever, you're an absolute god!

Really are a credit to this website.

Thank you so much.

Thank you very much woody - another thought about researching universities - is to look at the staff who are going to be teaching you, their research background and where they obtained their degrees from. These two from Westminster's law and criminology department are impressive - especially the woman with the glossy picture Dr. Julia Davidson - get her:-

Dr Davidson provides regular expert advice on sexual abuse to the media, working extensively with ITV Evening News, the ITV News Channel and the BBC. She has written for both The Guardian and The Evening Standard. She has written a book on her research, Child Sexual Abuse, Media Representation and Government Reactions due for publication in 2006.

http://www.wmin.ac.uk/page-9241

http://www.wmin.ac.uk/law/page-584

http://www.psi.org.uk/about/default.asp

Reply 25

woody1989

OP

I can't belive how good your advice is, what University are you attending at the moment?

I know Uni's are personal, but in general how well would you consider W'Minster?

Thank you very much, again! :smile:

Reply 26

Hey Woody

I'm a graduate of an old red brick university in the north, it seems on this website people's egos get in the way of providing useful and constructive advice to potential undergraduates who want to make the best decision possible regarding such big decisions as which university to go to. You would have thought these so-called “intelligent” elitist snobs would know better – though I put this down to immaturity. Hence the disparaging comments about certain universities that they frankly don’t know anything about - based on league tables that have cobbled together subjective statistical "targets" such as spend per student and student satisfaction, drop out rate etc.

These things are all different for varying reasons - some universities are very large, London universities face the toughest challenge as they are based in a very expensive city when it comes to living costs etc. A university can just decide to up its offer rate of AAB across all subjects and climb a few places up the league tables if they wanted to.

You should follow your own instincts on this one, you could try different universities with slightly different courses, but would they even interest you and would you be motivated to continue for three or four years studying something that you can't stand?

In academic circles Westminster is considered reputable and I know they have a plan, which they keep hidden (I've seen it, but shouldn't have if you get my drift); in 2008 they are putting together a document on the history of Westminster and its achievements. It's ethical in its approach to international students and one thing I've noticed is that on its website, it's easy to find staff profiles and their CV's something which is practically impossible on the Greenwich and UEL websites and actually a lot of university websites.

I'd explore all the universities websites using search facilities (if they have one - some don't), definitely visit them all, stay in halls for the first year to make some good friends - nothing worse than moving in with complete strangers for the first year and finding out you can't stand them, and look at the modules offered in your course.

If you have any questions always e-mail the admissions tutors - they should bend over backwards to help you out. Remember wherever you go, work hard, but have a laugh also. From what you've mentioned, you have your heart set on central London and the particular course Westminster offers - and out of your choices, you won't go wrong if you do pick Westminster.

Here is something I found on the Westminster website - on most university websites it's hard to find this kind of information - at least Westminster are putting this on display for the public so they can make an informed choice:

http://www.wmin.ac.uk/PDF/AnnualReview2005-2006.pdf

All the best.

Reply 27

It's all well and good saying that, and I admire your sentiments. However, I will be blunt with you and the OP.

When you go up for a job, will an employer treat a degree with Westminster or LSE with more respect?

It's LSE every single time, I'm afraid.

This has nothing to do with elitism, and everything about wanting a good job when leaving university. This is not to say the employment process is not based on other factors.

You have a lot of good things to say C_D_Forever; However, this is something that I think should be clarified.

Reply 28

coolershaka

AdamTJ

This has nothing to do with elitism, and everything about wanting a good job when leaving university. This is not to say the employment process is not based on other factors.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I don't believe that unis should merely be seen as finishing schools for industry and just be judged on their ability to put people into jobs. In that case we should scrap public unis and companies should set up universities for their own trainees like they do in Japan (why subsidise their profit from the public purse?).

Unis are bastions of teaching and research, where people go out of an interest of learning their subject to the deepest level.

Reply 29

coolershaka

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I don't believe that unis should merely be seen as finishing schools for industry and just be judged on their ability to put people into jobs. In that case we should scrap public unis and companies should set up universities for their own trainees like they do in Japan (why subsidise their profit from the public purse?).

Unis are bastions of teaching and research, where people go out of an interest of learning their subject to the deepest level.

Haha, some people go for that reason. And to an extent, my choice of subject (law) has been influenced by my enjoyment of that topic, and also my suitability to it as well.

Unfortunately for you, in the modern world, my concern is a valid one as well. Most people go because often one won't obtain a good job without a degree from a respected university. I personally blame the Labour government for this state of affairs.

Reply 30

AdamTJ

It's all well and good saying that, and I admire your sentiments. However, I will be blunt with you and the OP.

When you go up for a job, will an employer treat a degree with Westminster or LSE with more respect?

It's LSE every single time, I'm afraid.

This has nothing to do with elitism, and everything about wanting a good job when leaving university. This is not to say the employment process is not based on other factors.

You have a lot of good things to say C_D_Forever; However, this is something that I think should be clarified.

Thanks for the compliment, you have a lot of good things to say (apologise - I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek here), saying that, it's all well and good - but in this day and age, if you go for a graduate level job you have to go through what we call an assessment centre. Therefore, you fluff this and I'm afraid they will not give a cheeky girls arse if you're from Harvard or London Met. I'm guessing from your post you haven't been or seen many of these (assessment centres that is).

This involves many psychometric tests to determine everything from your personality, interpersonal skills and how you work in a group and independently. Therefore, I'm afraid this is even before they look at where your degree certificate is from. The old boys club of yester-year when you could only get into certain jobs if you were only from Oxbridge is over. The feedback from employers is that there are overwhelming amounts of graduates from a whole cross section of reputable universities who haven't even managed to acquire the basic "soft" skills they need - failing the assessment centres and leaving places unfilled even though they have had record application figures for particular posts.

http://education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,,2006247,00.html

"Last week, a survey by the Association of Graduate Recruiters found many employers are struggling to find graduates with the right skills, and one of the abilities most desired yet least in evidence is that of "communication". Accounting and investment banking are two of the worst-affected areas."

How are certain universities combating this and preparing their graduates for this? Well you could look at CASE for example:

http://www.wmin.ac.uk/page-7986

http://www.wmin.ac.uk/page-7984

LSE is a brilliant university, though it's very specialised and you can only do certain social science degrees here, so how is your post helping the original poster with his question?

Again this bit of your post: "This has nothing to do with elitism, and everything about wanting a good job when leaving university. This is not to say the employment process is not based on other factors." Actually, your post has everything to do with elitism, though the bit about the employment process being based on other factors is a bit of an understatement - but correct.

So yes and thank you, I have many good things to say. Has this clarified everything for you? Apologise if I have been a bit condescending, but intelligent people should do some research and at least point at this when they express an opinion instead of just spouting off the old "this university is better than that university platitude" which evidently is still happening on a regular basis on these forums.

By the way, I don’t do sentimental.

Reply 31

Né Stig

15

^ Utter tosh (Adam TJ). Many mature graduates enroll at Thames Valley to further enhance their professional skills. C_D forever makes some very valid remarks about this forum. When you imply "one won't obtain a good job [from and institution like Westminster]" is purely based on secondary and incorrect information.

What elitest snobs on this forum state, is your chances of getting a job in a magic circle firm training to be a lawyer at Westminster will be non-existent. Maybe to an extent that's partially true, but it really won't stop you getting a good job with a rewarding career. I know people who go to Greenwich and are by my account, very smart people. It's what YOU do in life that will set you apart, not some university that merely assigns and guides you through your degree program. IB's also apparently (accoridng to this forum again) take on LSE and Oxbridge and the alike students - rubbish. Half my year group have just got jobs sorted at IB firms for when they leave this coming June. That is based on testing and personal character.

I will say this, the only bad thing about Westminster is it's campus in Harrow. They also like to up their grade offers to do exactly as C_D forever states - by climbing league tables. I'd imagine a great percentage of Westminster students to be of international descent marketing their institution just shy of Oxford Street etc. As for Greenwich University - well, it's probably the most beautiful university in the UK bar none surrounded by decent shops and other nightspots. Good place to be for a social life.

You have to realise that if you yourself does not make it into a so called top firm as there are after all, limited numbers, you will end up in a job where your colleagues have attended places like TVU. It's no bad thing, and I can only guess most people feel so insecure as to shout there universities interests at the top of their voice to be as condescending as possible.

Going to university and studying a professional qualification is an achievement in itself.

Reply 32

walshie

^ Utter tosh (Adam TJ). Many mature graduates enroll at Thames Valley to further enhance their professional skills. C_D forever makes some very valid remarks about this forum. When you imply "one won't obtain a good job [from and institution like Westminster]" is purely based on secondary and incorrect information.

What elitest snobs on this forum state, is your chances of getting a job in a magic circle firm training to be a lawyer at Westminster will be non-existent. Maybe to an extent that's partially true, but it really won't stop you getting a good job with a rewarding career.

Oh, I hate to say this Walshie, but Westminster law has a really strong law department, last figures quoted showed they were in the top 15 law schools for pupillages gained and even though it goes against Westminster ethos concerning elitism, they ask for pretty high grades ranging from ABB to BBB for entry to one of their law degrees. They do many specialist postgraduate qualifying law degrees, which aren't offered at other institutions.

http://www.wmin.ac.uk/law/page-0

https://srs21live.wmin.ac.uk/ipp/U09FULAW.htm

http://www.wmin.ac.uk/law/pdf/westlaw0306.pdf

"Most staff engage in research and publication. Staff in Professional Legal Studies produce well known practitioner texts. More generally, the School has an international reputation in areas including criminology, international and comparative law, socio-legal research and international commercial law. In the Research Assessment Exercise 2001 the School was awarded 5, one of the top classifications.

The most significant indication of the quality of the teaching provided by the Law School is the continuing success of our former students. Large numbers of our graduates enter the legal profession and many are highly successful. Our alumni includes presidents of the Law Society, judges and QCs, as well as young lawyers or barristers of the year. Others, often our Masters and PhD students, have chosen careers in international tribunal and commercial institutions or as academics, We are rightly proud of all our former students, and keep in touch with them through an active Alumni Association."

I think this trend in asking for higher grades at Westminster and other ex-polys is most likely to do with rising applications - so they'll raise the grades required but most likely be slightly more flexible with entry if somebody drops a grade or two if places permit.

I understand where you are coming from though; certain people just have blinkers on and can't see very far.

Reply 33

You don't do sentimental. I tried to be at least fairly polite. Clearly, you don't feel I deserve the same respect.

The person asked what the best university was in London. That's an honest answer.

I would say that any insecurity here is coming from your part Walshie, if you felt truly comfortable with Westminster's position as a "top-tier" university, then you wouldn't feel the need to defend it so vociferously. I actually find your accusations towards me fairly laughable.

I am not discussing the merits of the students who go there, I am merely discussing the consequences of going to the aforesaid universities. In an age of degree saturation, this has taken on more important overtones for many people.

And really I don't care whether you believe Greenwich University is beautiful or not. Many universities are "beautiful". I don't see how this adds anything to your argument. Beauty is very much a subjective thing.

Please talk to any barrister when considering this point. They will consider applicants for pupillages from basically 6 universities- Oxbridge, Durham, UCL, LSE and Bristol. The Bar is an elitist group, that's just the way it is. Again, I'm not arguing the merits of this system, I'm merely stating the facts. I am telling you, the "old boys" club within law, even within law practices to an extent, is still alive and well.

I promise you, I don't say this out of arrogance (although you may interpret it as such), I say it in reality. Even lawyers in high street law firms, often have to have a degree from at least the likes of Leicester, Sheffield etc...Provided I get a 2:1, I can't see myself working anywhere near those who go to TVU.

I would never try to diminish the achievement of those who have worked hard to go to any university, and obviously I have no idea about jobs outside of my chosen field, but unfortunately the "elitism" which you find so repugnant in me will be rife amongst employers as well (I know this for a fact, my father and many of his friends are in these positions, and I obviously try and glean information off them).

That said, you have proved that there are plenty of opportunities for people who do go to TVU, London Met. etc..For instance, qualifications for jobs such as surveying are respected from those universities.

You try and be a barrister though, and I'm afraid it's just not happening.

Of course I will be lambasted as a snob after making these remarks, but that's not the way I see it. We live in the REAL world, and unfortunately Britain is not really a meritocracy. Some universities are more well thought of as others, and whereas it is by no means impossible to be successful having gone to an ex-poly (one of my neighbours went to Ealing Polytechnic and is now worth 75 million), it cannot be disputed that going to a so-called "traditional university" will assist you greatly.

Reply 34

AdamTJ

You don't do sentimental. I tried to be at least fairly polite. Clearly, you don't feel I deserve the same respect.

The person asked what the best university was in London. That's an honest answer.

I would say that any insecurity here is coming from your part Walshie, if you felt truly comfortable with Westminster's position as a "top-tier" university, then you wouldn't feel the need to defend it so vociferously. I actually find your accusations towards me fairly laughable.

I am not discussing the merits of the students who go there, I am merely discussing the consequences of going to the aforesaid universities. In an age of degree saturation, this has taken on more important overtones for many people.

And really I don't care whether you believe Greenwich University is beautiful or not. Many universities are "beautiful". I don't see how this adds anything to your argument. Beauty is very much a subjective thing.

Please talk to any barrister when considering this point. They will consider applicants for pupillages from basically 6 universities- Oxbridge, Durham, UCL, LSE and Bristol. The Bar is an elitist group, that's just the way it is. Again, I'm not arguing the merits of this system, I'm merely stating the facts. I am telling you, the "old boys" club within law, even within law practices to an extent, is still alive and well.

Apologise about the "sentimental" comment, it was merely an objective statement and not meant to be rude - seeing as I'm a scientist and not a lawyer and this is the internet, statements are at times perceived wrongly and at times hard to put across.

In addition, you have just expanded on your last post about "this university is better than that university" - again with anecdotal evidence and no hard evidence or tangible substance that doesn't help anybody but I'm sure boosts your ego. Again just an objective observation.

AdamTJ

"Please talk to any barrister when considering this point. They will consider applicants for pupillages from basically 6 universities- Oxbridge, Durham, UCL, LSE and Bristol. The Bar is an elitist group, that's just the way it is. "

I think you should talk to people like Philip Sycamore when considering that point - president of the law society between 1997 - 98 who went to Westminster. Hasn't done him any harm.

Alternatively, these young rising stars:

International Competition Win
Westminster students beat off competition from 25 other law schools to win the prestigious National Client Interviewing competition. Coached by Caroline Boulby and Graham Robson, LLB students Lisa Edge and Justine How won through regional rounds before taking the final in Warwick. Law School Senior Lecturer Graham Robson said: "I am proud to say that this is Westminster's third win in this competition. No other law school in the country can beat this record."

Moot Success
Westminster CPE students Piers Rankin and Booan Temple won the 2000 West London Law Society Moot, held in the Law School's Court Room. They shared the £500 first prize. This is a terrific achievement given that they were mooting against trainee solicitors who were much further on in the legal education process. The competition was judged by Judge Nic Madge from West London County Court and stipendiary magistrate Jeremy Coleman.

http://www.wmin.ac.uk/law/page-601

http://www.wmin.ac.uk/page-1684

http://www.wmin.ac.uk/pdf/UG05%20p1_p26.pdf

Again LSE is excellent, if you want to do a specialist degree and study a social science from a social/economic perspective. The original poster wanted to do criminal justice - which is a degree LSE doesn't offer and also Westminster is a massively diverse multi-faculty university - not a small specialist college.

Small tip, when you become a top lawyer - you'll need to drop the anecdotal evidence and find hard facts to win your cases. Get practicing for those assessment centres - like I said, in this day and age you'll have to get through these before they'll look at where your certificate is from. Meritocracy is the way.

All the best.

Reply 35

woody1989

OP

C D,

What degree have you got under your belt? And what do you do for a living?

You're posts are amazingly helpful, unbelievably.

I'm a lad who wants to do my family proud and get a decent job - I'm a smart lad, but people on forums make me consider my Uni application, maybe wait for next year and apply to other Uni's such as Oxford etc.

But, the thing is I want to be in London; study CJS and be happy, but I can't be as in my mind all it is is "how **** is the Uni, I am going to?"

I'll also take this oppurtunity to ask whether people know if Criminal Justice Studies is a good subject, or whether it is a Mickey Mouse subject?

Thanks

Reply 36

How many times do I have to emphasise this before I get through to you. This has nothing to do with my ego, and everything to with me being realistic. It is not in the least bit snobbish. I am not bashing Westminster merely to make myself feel superior. I have nothing against Westminster or its students at all, I am merely offering my honest opinion.

The examples you give are the exceptions to the rule, rather than the rule itself. Please show me the percentage of Westminster graduates at City/West End law firms/barrister chambers. I think those are more pertinent statistics.

And please don't tell me anything about anecdotal evidence in a subject you know nothing about. In law, where do you think the evidence comes from? Yes it comes from witness statements and cross examination in court, in which anecdotal evidence is used to distinguish which side has the more feasible case. My anecdotal evidence in this particular case is actually particularly strong, as it is a partner of Olswang (big firm in the city if you're unaware) telling me where he ranked different universities. I think that is slightly more convincing than a random scientist telling me that someone who was head of he Law Society- hardly the same as being a top barrister, I might hasten to add, once went to Westminster.

And could you really argue that because Westminster won a mooting competition once, that makes their students as a whole more employable to top London firms? I repeat, I am not discussing the relative intelligence or legal skill of a Westminster student. I have no idea about that. I am discussing their employment prospects as opposed to that of a traditional top 5/6 university.

So, in all honesty you can find dubious evidence to support your unrealistic mentality, but it will not sway me from my opinion that you will have better employment prospects going to Oxbridge, Durham or LSE (not all of which you will note are specialist institutions) than going to Westminster. I think I will trust real employers, and you can continue sticking your head in the sand.

However, if it is "hard" evidence you're after I'll give it to you:

http://www.suttontrust.com/press075.asp

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20000810/ai_n14321025

http://www.cja.gov.uk/files/060322_Merged_Files_of_2nd_Research_Report_2.pdf

Please particularly check pages 20 and 49.

I hope this proves compelling enough for you...

Reply 37

woody1989

C D,

What degree have you got under your belt? And what do you do for a living?

You're posts are amazingly helpful, unbelievably.

I'm a lad who wants to do my family proud and get a decent job - I'm a smart lad, but people on forums make me consider my Uni application, maybe wait for next year and apply to other Uni's such as Oxford etc.

But, the thing is I want to be in London; study CJS and be happy, but I can't be as in my mind all it is is "how **** is the Uni, I am going to?"

I'll also take this oppurtunity to ask whether people know if Criminal Justice Studies is a good subject, or whether it is a Mickey Mouse subject?

Thanks

I should make this clear that this is purely subjective, and as such should not be taken as gospel.

It really realistically depends on what A Levels you have/will get. If you get 3A's then you can realistically consider Oxbridge, and if it's London you want, UCL, LSE and KCL. I'm not sure whether these will offer Criminal Justice Studies though. You would probably have to undertake a Law degree if you wanted to study there, although this will cover a much wider range of subjects than Criminal Law. They may do Criminology or something, which you might find interesting. You should look into it yourself.

The difference in intensity and reputation between say Oxford and Westminster is realistically, absolutely huge. Clearly it is much more difficult to get into Oxford as well, and you will have to work your absolute arse off. It's a question of what you want from your university experience.

The grade requirements for Criminal Justice Studies will be lower than those for law. You should do a detailed research into which universities actually do the subject and which grade requirements will suit you. If you are intent on London, then research all U of L colleges, as well as others such as City, Westminster, Greenwich etc...

You shouldn't write off other parts of the country though. Most major cities will have at least two universities, and the night life will often be excellent. It might be worth attending some open days to see which ones you like. Although it might seem like an extremely attractive proposition, there are disadvantages to being a student in London.

If you want an honest opinion- Criminal Justice Studies is not the most "typically traditional" subject, but if it's the right one for you, and you have a real passion for it, it shouldn't stop you.

Good luck with whatever path you may choose.

Reply 38

Né Stig

15

AdamTJ

I would say that any insecurity here is coming from your part Walshie, if you felt truly comfortable with Westminster's position as a "top-tier" university, then you wouldn't feel the need to defend it so vociferously. I actually find your accusations towards me fairly laughable.

I am not discussing the merits of the students who go there, I am merely discussing the consequences of going to the aforesaid universities. In an age of degree saturation, this has taken on more important overtones for many people.

Please talk to any barrister when considering this point. They will consider applicants for pupillages from basically 6 universities- Oxbridge, Durham, UCL, LSE and Bristol. The Bar is an elitist group, that's just the way it is. Again, I'm not arguing the merits of this system, I'm merely stating the facts. I am telling you, the "old boys" club within law, even within law practices to an extent, is still alive and well.

I promise you, I don't say this out of arrogance (although you may interpret it as such), I say it in reality. Even lawyers in high street law firms, often have to have a degree from at least the likes of Leicester, Sheffield etc...Provided I get a 2:1, I can't see myself working anywhere near those who go to TVU.

PMSL! How old are you Adam may I ask? Have you:
a) even had a job?
b) gone into puberty?
c) Actually got into university yet?

Your comments are most unhelpful, pompous and downright pretentious.
A few things first; are you seriously suggesting that as a graduate from Westminster, you cannot get a job working as a solicitor? It's only you who seems to be fixated on attending the bar and working for an MC firm. Really - stop now and actually do some proper research, your comments are very incorrect.

Secondly, I'm not defending Westminster so vociferously at all, especially since I myself don't even attend Westminster. What I am defending is the stinking attitude of elitest prats like you who listen to garbage on this forum. I've worked at some of the biggest organisations already, and I myself have been an actual manager. So when I see comments such as yours, it makes me think another silly TSR schoolboy listening to too much speculation.

I strongly suggest you get out in the real world and see for yourself the vast differences of opinions. Matter closed.

Reply 39