Miscellanous Thread VI

@Fizzel @SA-1
What do you guys think can actually be done to stop ISIS/Islamic Terrorism in general?

Reply 5222

bj27

Btw does anybody here listen to Classical Music?

Reply 5223

Kenan and Kel

19

Korean politicians...

https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/6cvlnv/korean_politician_swag/

Reply 5224

Dirtybit

You can't eradicate Terrorism completely unfortunately a land like UK, only minimise it.

Reply 5225

scriggy

The security services here deserve a lot of credit for ensuring these events are as rare as they are IMO, but the threat will always be there. All it takes is for some impressionable waster to watch a few ISIS propaganda videos and he'll drive a van through a crowd of people thinking he's the 21st century Saladin.

Even if you totally crush ISIS, Al Quaeda, Boko Haram etc etc the ideology will still be there in small pockets like a cancer within the worldwide Muslim community.

Reply 5226

username917703

Original post by SA-1

Terror threat level been raised to critical, and 5000 troops to be deployed on streets

Critical means they have information and an attack is expected imminently? Sorry if this sounds obvious.

Original post by bammy jastard 27

Btw does anybody here listen to Classical Music?

Bits, why?

Reply 5227

ClockEnderAFC

I was thinking recently about what it must have been like to live during the PIRA's bombing campaign, where you couldn't even go to work, go the pub or go shopping without being sure that you'd come back home. Unfortunately that is now the reality once again. It's heartbreaking to think that little children went to see their favourite singer, to be happy and to enjoy themselves and won't see another day.

Reply 5228

ClockEnderAFC

Original post by bammy jastard 27

@Fizzel @SA-1
What do you guys think can actually be done to stop ISIS/Islamic Terrorism in general?

Unfortunately extreme circumstances call for extreme measures. Civil liberties need to be curbed in the name of anti-terrorism. Anyone even slightly suspected of conspiracy to commit terrorism should have their internet history, phone calls, text messages etc. all logged, their passport confiscated and only being allowed to travel abroad upon application, their domestic travel monitored (possibly introduce a system where you need to show photo ID to purchase train tickets, and anyone on the terror watchlist refused a ticket). If a person has nothing to hide then they should have nothing to fear. If it can save lives then it should be implemented, even if it is a shift towards totalitarianism.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 5229

SA-1

16

Original post by bammy jastard 27

@Fizzel @SA-1
What do you guys think can actually be done to stop ISIS/Islamic Terrorism in general?

It's a really annoyingly tough one. There are so many Muslims in the world so there are obviously bound to be more "Muslims" that use Islam to do their sick criminal ****, as compared to other beliefs/religions.

We are very fortunate to live in the UK. We have one of the, if not the best intelligence systems around and people who are working tirelessly to protect us. We have still seen though, that it's easy for people do stuff without any ties to anyone, through hiring a truck/car and just running people over for example. I think it's about digging a little deeper and working out why these terrorists actually do their ****.

Comparatively, we live in a country where despite all the **** that happens, people still aren't ready to turn against people based on their race/religion. Like, personally, I've never been at the end of racism and I come across a lot of people everyday through my travels into central for work. I would have thought that maybe it's because of who I am, but I don't ever recall witnessing racism/abuse towards anyone. That's what we do very well as a society and as a country, so I guess it's about expanding on that.

I think the crux of the issue is influence, brain washing and all the rest of it. Terrorists will probably have different reasons for doing what they do, but it's been shown to us that a lot of it comes from social isolation. Someone either doesn't have anyone to relate to, or they've been excluded from their personal community (I.e family, friends, school, college etc.). We've all seen those interviews with family members of terrorists who are like "I can't believe he'd do this, we never expected it" etc. I think even with this one, the guy's family came out and said that he was quiet, respectful of his elders etc. That's what makes me think that it's about developing people to understand, and also for us to understand them and make them feel more accepted - so that they aren't approached by these terrorist pricks. We're social beings so through a conscious or unconscious search for some sort of acceptance, terrorists will probably stumble across these ***** who endorse terrorsim.. & then it's just about feeding that fire.

One way to cut down on it might be to focus a bit on these key pockets of society, and to help develop these people in a way that they understand the values of our society and feel more accepted.

The other, and this should go hand in hand with everything, is the actual Muslim community being more vocal about what Islam is not about. "Terrorists aren't Muslim", "Islam doesn't preach terrorism" is a key point that people raise only when they are referred to as someone who represents a religion of terror. There needs to be a concerted effort to show that, like the majority of Britons who stand side by side and accept people from minority groups, Muslims need to stand with them and tell potential terrorists that doing what they do is entirely wrong.

Reply 5230

Zerforax

Original post by ClockEnderAFC

Unfortunately extreme circumstances call for extreme measures. Civil liberties need to be curbed in the name of anti-terrorism. Anyone even slightly suspected of conspiracy to commit terrorism should have their internet history, phone calls, text messages etc. all logged, their passport confiscated and only being allowed to travel abroad upon application, their domestic travel monitored (possibly introduce a system where you need to show photo ID to purchase train tickets, and anyone on the terror watchlist refused a ticket). If a person has nothing to hide then they should have nothing to fear. If it can save lives then it should be implemented, even if it is a shift towards totalitarianism.

Except all that would happen is racial profiling. If you're going to go down that route, why should individuals be singled out? Why shouldn't everyone be monitored to that extreme?

Or presumably it's fine to curb for anyone with a muslim background or related to one but not fine to do to every other citizen.

Reply 5231

Zerforax

Original post by SA-1

It's a really annoyingly tough one. There are so many Muslims in the world so there are obviously bound to be more "Muslims" that use Islam to do their sick criminal ****, as compared to other beliefs/religions.

We are very fortunate to live in the UK. We have one of the, if not the best intelligence systems around and people who are working tirelessly to protect us. We have still seen though, that it's easy for people do stuff without any ties to anyone, through hiring a truck/car and just running people over for example. I think it's about digging a little deeper and working out why these terrorists actually do their ****.

Comparatively, we live in a country where despite all the **** that happens, people still aren't ready to turn against people based on their race/religion. Like, personally, I've never been at the end of racism and I come across a lot of people everyday through my travels into central for work. I would have thought that maybe it's because of who I am, but I don't ever recall witnessing racism/abuse towards anyone. That's what we do very well as a society and as a country, so I guess it's about expanding on that.

I think the crux of the issue is influence, brain washing and all the rest of it. Terrorists will probably have different reasons for doing what they do, but it's been shown to us that a lot of it comes from social isolation. Someone either doesn't have anyone to relate to, or they've been excluded from their personal community (I.e family, friends, school, college etc.). We've all seen those interviews with family members of terrorists who are like "I can't believe he'd do this, we never expected it" etc. I think even with this one, the guy's family came out and said that he was quiet, respectful of his elders etc. That's what makes me think that it's about developing people to understand, and also for us to understand them and make them feel more accepted - so that they aren't approached by these terrorist pricks. We're social beings so through a conscious or unconscious search for some sort of acceptance, terrorists will probably stumble across these ***** who endorse terrorsim.. & then it's just about feeding that fire.

One way to cut down on it might be to focus a bit on these key pockets of society, and to help develop these people in a way that they understand the values of our society and feel more accepted.

The other, and this should go hand in hand with everything, is the actual Muslim community being more vocal about what Islam is not about. "Terrorists aren't Muslim", "Islam doesn't preach terrorism" is a key point that people raise only when they are referred to as someone who represents a religion of terror. There needs to be a concerted effort to show that, like the majority of Britons who stand side by side and accept people from minority groups, Muslims need to stand with them and tell potential terrorists that doing what they do is entirely wrong.

Re your last paragraph, have you ever considered that this is done but it's just not widely reported? Hardly going to help the press agenda by trying to show that the vast majority of muslims are good people.

Reply 5232

The Wavefunction

19

Original post by Zerforax

Except all that would happen is racial profiling. If you're going to go down that route, why should individuals be singled out? Why shouldn't everyone be monitored to that extreme?

Or presumably it's fine to curb for anyone with a muslim background or related to one but not fine to do to every other citizen.

Whilst I agree with the point you're making, if attacks become common then I'd rather we make a minority feel slightly uncomfortable than people being killed innocently. Although that would probably divide people more and create more radicalised extremists in the UK.
Personally I think we should just withdraw all influence from the middle East and let them get on with what they want to do. Someone will rise to power and it'll settle down. Or they'll kill themselves off. West governments destabilising the region's started all this, and it's just retaliation.

Reply 5233

Zerforax

Original post by The Wavefunction

Whilst I agree with the point you're making, if attacks become common then I'd rather we make a minority feel slightly uncomfortable than people being killed innocently. Although that would probably divide people more and create more radicalised extremists in the UK.
Personally I think we should just withdraw all influence from the middle East and let them get on with what they want to do. Someone will rise to power and it'll settle down. Or they'll kill themselves off. West governments destabilising the region's started all this, and it's just retaliation.

Of course you would - you're not in that minority being made "uncomfortable".

The attacks aren't common it's just the press focus. Same way that knife crime is a way bigger problem in terms of number of crimes/casualties but it's brushed under the carpet because it tends not to affect the average middle class white person.

Reply 5234

Angry cucumber

Original post by ClockEnderAFC

Unfortunately extreme circumstances call for extreme measures. Civil liberties need to be curbed in the name of anti-terrorism. Anyone even slightly suspected of conspiracy to commit terrorism should have their internet history, phone calls, text messages etc. all logged, their passport confiscated and only being allowed to travel abroad upon application, their domestic travel monitored (possibly introduce a system where you need to show photo ID to purchase train tickets, and anyone on the terror watchlist refused a ticket). If a person has nothing to hide then they should have nothing to fear. If it can save lives then it should be implemented, even if it is a shift towards totalitarianism.

That's a one way ticket to being like Turkey

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 5235

So Instinct

Original post by Zerforax

Re your last paragraph, have you ever considered that this is done but it's just not widely reported? Hardly going to help the press agenda by trying to show that the vast majority of muslims are good people.

It gets thrown around a lot but if you go to a British mosque nearly all teach of peace, tolerance with generic prayers, I believe there are one or two cases of more radicalist preachers running mosques but we're talking 1% at most and I would have no qualms with them being treated with suspicion- they have been ridiculed by other Muslim scholars but ultimately that means nothing, people won't read it or it won't be published and then those very same people will say that the rest of the religion needs to be more vocal.
You can't rely on your normal source of news for this, mainstream news outlets lack integrity in terms of a portrayal of the realities of situations and will focus of whatever generates more clicks, which also happens to fit the papers/readers agendas, essentially an echo chamber. If you go to their more niche parts you will find more muslims denouncing these acts- if anyone wishes to google this they can search for Maajid Nawaz (ex radical) as an example of someone I'm aware of who is trying to open a debate of reform within the religion and denouncing radicalism etc.

I don't believe terrorism has any short term fixes and likelihood if there are it will have to be sacrifice of Civil Liberties/Privacy to an extent.
I think we have to look at and learn from historical precedent in terms of these things, but also remember that today's terrorist has access to more sophisticated weapons, yesterday's knife/pistol wielder has access to explosives today and while the two under the surface can essentially be the same, their propensity for chaos is very different now- (this point will tie in later).

My point I'm getting at here is to critique this current cycle and thought patterns that we've got stuck in, we suffer tragedies and many who want to debate the situation are stuck in this mindset that it you mock the religion, say it's born of violence are make plans to eradicate it these people will what? Go away? Can you with any intellectual honesty say you truly believe that?
The average person has been fooled by this facade and seems to have forgotten that the modus operandi of a terrorist is to cause terror, chaos and disturb the current state of society. Essentially what they've done is committed crimes and deflect the focus of society onto the ideology they happen to prescribe to. Islam is the shield that they hide behind so to speak, it's a convenient answer to give when perhaps the individual doesn't really know the answer and has just been brainwashed into hating western civilisation.
It's easier to brainwash younger people (which is the profile of the average terrorist today) with threats of a higher deity, claims of victimhood and promise of fortune/other non tangibles at a later life, compared to saying 'we hate the west for their (insert policies/actions/financial factors/etc) and we want you to blow them up for us'.

I'll make it clear that I'm not saying people shouldn't critique the religion, in fact they should and have every right to do so but we shouldn't take one without the other and place responsibility accurately. Islam unfortunately for it's peaceful followers is not actually the religion of piece that it claims and is a perfect vessel to harbour people with malicious intent. It's a religion that prides itself on the idea that it is the true word of god, unaltered from the time of it's conception and this claim to purity is also its current downfall. In order for a middle eastern Abrahamic religion to successfully integrate to western civilisation it needs to adapt over time, essentially becoming more mellow- we don't live in the era or continent where extreme measures need to be taken as society is not as violent and immoral as it once was. Islams integration to western civilisation is still relatively in its infancy compared to a religion like Christianity.
Another factor being that the majority of muslims come from countries that lack education, are riddled with poverty and have much less significance on the value of life and as such they're easy targets for this type of indoctrination. That's not say that educated people are susceptible, they are but being from an uneducated background or having ties to it and being of a certain more persuasive age seems to dramatically increase the ease of which this indoctrination can take hold.
The only reason there are muslims who can live peacefully here is because they themselves only use he teaching as metaphorical, some pick and choose teachings but all need to anglicise it before applying it to their way of life. We are sowing those seeds in todays society and it should in future bear fruit.

Tying it back now, terrorism is beyond religion, if you look hard enough all ideologies/ways of life have capacity for terrorism to some extent. It does however depend on the current state of technology and the structure of its ideological vessel. One day in the future this will blow over as history has shown us (e.g KKK/IRA) and will come a new wave of terrorists, more dangerous than the last working under a different guise with a different agenda and when the day comes we will probably apply the same faulty logic to their reign too.

Tricky not to get lost on this debate as there's so many branches to explore yet balanced realistic solutions are so difficult.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 5236

Hazard28

13

It's nigh on impossible to kill an ideology.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 5237

So Instinct

Original post by Hazard28

It's nigh on impossible to kill an ideology.

Posted from TSR Mobile

You don't need to kill them, you replace them with another one over time.

Reply 5238

Rk2k14

Chop off one head and another one grows in its place. Even more vicious and brutal than before.

Reply 5239

username1315644