Tory government

Original post by ByEeek

No need to be rude. If the Lib Dems had not gone into government with the Tories, neither of my children would have benefited from free school meals. It is interesting to note that May proposed to scrap free school meals but had to abandon those plans when she lost her majority.

When the Tories got into power with the Lib Dems, it was done so on the basis that the Tories would be allowed to execute swinging cuts that have crippled most councils in the north, whilst the Lib Dems were permitted to hold a referendum for the alternative vote (which they lost), free school meals, increased personal tax allowances and a variety of other progressive policies. The knife in the back for the Lib Dems was that they had to back down from their policy of abolishing student loans.

I am not in la la land. Just recalling what actually happened. Look it up if you don't believe me, but please refrain from effing and geoffing at someone you don't even know.

As a northerner myself, I can tell you that the reason that councils up here are crippled is not cuts, it is socialist waste and general incompetence, when they spend money on useless crap like cycle lanes that never get used while the roads are full of potholes you'd expect them to be tight on cash.

Same thing can be applied to the NHS, biggest buyer of fax machines in 2017. Yes you heard me right, ****ING FAX MACHINES. If that isn't wasteful spending I don't know what is.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 23

username1799249

Original post by Connor27

As a northerner myself, I can tell you that the reason that councils up here are crippled is not cuts, it is socialist waste and general incompetence, when they spend money on useless crap like cycle lanes that never get used while the roads are full of potholes you'd expect them to be tight on cash.

Same thing can be applied to the NHS, biggest buyer of fax machines in 2017. Yes you heard me right, ****ING FAX MACHINES. If that isn't wasteful spending I don't know what is.

So just exactly do you cut socialist waste and general incompetence to the tune of £87 million a year? Those words are so easy to say but utterly meaningless and unsubstantiated.

As for fax machines. What does that even mean? If the NHS buys one fax machine but everyone else buys none, that is hardly a waste of money or sensational. And compared to the billions that have been wasted on IT infrastructure that doesn't work for the NHS over the last several years, I would say that simple technology that works and does the job like Faxes is probably a progressive step forward for those trying to get the job done.

Saying that organisations like councils and the NHS are wasteful is so easy to say yet successive governments and administrations have tried and failed to reduce this mythical waste. Perhaps they are actually very good value for money? I would suggest they are. For the £1400 a year council tax, I get free education for my kids, roads to drive on, my bins collected, libraries, civic centres and halls, town centres that are generally cleaned and maintained, the grass on my kerb cut, parks, museums, Tatton Hall, an airport and more besides.

I challenge you to get that cheaper elsewhere.

Reply 24

username878267

15

Original post by Connor27

As a northerner myself, I can tell you that the reason that councils up here are crippled is not cuts, it is socialist waste and general incompetence, when they spend money on useless crap like cycle lanes that never get used while the roads are full of potholes you'd expect them to be tight on cash.

Same thing can be applied to the NHS, biggest buyer of fax machines in 2017. Yes you heard me right, ****ING FAX MACHINES. If that isn't wasteful spending I don't know what is.

Lol. I love how you think that because you come from the north, that you get to be the representative of all northern people on here, including myself.
Considering the north of England I shall overwhelmingly Labour, it seems they don't agree with you :smile:

Reply 25

Original post by ByEeek

So just exactly do you cut socialist waste and general incompetence to the tune of £87 million a year? Those words are so easy to say but utterly meaningless and unsubstantiated.

As for fax machines. What does that even mean? If the NHS buys one fax machine but everyone else buys none, that is hardly a waste of money or sensational. And compared to the billions that have been wasted on IT infrastructure that doesn't work for the NHS over the last several years, I would say that simple technology that works and does the job like Faxes is probably a progressive step forward for those trying to get the job done.

Saying that organisations like councils and the NHS are wasteful is so easy to say yet successive governments and administrations have tried and failed to reduce this mythical waste. Perhaps they are actually very good value for money? I would suggest they are. For the £1400 a year council tax, I get free education for my kids, roads to drive on, my bins collected, libraries, civic centres and halls, town centres that are generally cleaned and maintained, the grass on my kerb cut, parks, museums, Tatton Hall, an airport and more besides.

I challenge you to get that cheaper elsewhere.

Funny that, you live in Cheshire, where the council is run by who again? Oh yeah, those evil inhumane Tories...

Try living in one of the actual **** Northern councils; Kirklees, Calderdale, Bradford. Any of the ones with a Labour executive (with the possible exception of Leeds.) Then you'll see waste.

Reply 26

Original post by Bornblue

Lol. I love how you think that because you come from the north, that you get to be the representative of all northern people on here, including myself.
Considering the north of England I shall overwhelmingly Labour, it seems they don't agree with you :smile:

Nice refutation of the point there BB.

Reply 27

username878267

15

Original post by Connor27

Nice refutation of the point there BB.

It was an observation about how you repeatedly try and make out that you're speaking on behalf of the north, simply because you're from there. The way you try and make out you're this salt of the earth guy who just says things as they are.

The idea that huge budget cuts have no impact on service provision and that the NHS can be solved by less fax machines, is beyond stupid. The fact you're from the north doesn't give your arguments any more credence than they would have otherwise.

Reply 28

Original post by Bornblue

It was an observation about how you repeatedly try and make out that you're speaking on behalf of the north, simply because you're from there. The way you try and make out you're this salt of the earth guy who just says things as they are.

The idea that huge budget cuts have no impact on service provision and that the NHS can be solved by less fax machines, is beyond stupid. The fact you're from the north doesn't give your arguments any more credence than they would have otherwise.

I think my upbringing is highly relevant here; especially considering ByEeek claimed that government cuts has crippled northern councils, I think my experience in the Labour Councils of Calderdale and Kirklees are highly relevant as to the validity of that platitude.

Certainly more typical of the north in general than the overwhelmingly Tory council in East Cheshire that ByEeek cited (which if anything proved my point that it is Labour incompetence and waste that causes the problems.)

Reply 29

username878267

15

Original post by Connor27

I think my upbringing is highly relevant here; especially considering ByEeek claimed that government cuts has crippled northern councils, I think my experience in the Labour Councils of Calderdale and Kirklees are highly relevant as to the validity of that platitude.

Certainly more typical of the north in general than the overwhelmingly Tory council in East Cheshire that ByEeek cited (which if anything proved my point that it is Labour incompetence and waste that causes the problems.)

I'm also from the North and live in the north. My council has faced huge budget cuts from central government which has clearly negatively impacted its ability to provide public services.

I would think that, rather than the council spending money on cycle lanes, is the main cause. If the government cuts councils budgets then councils have less money, that's just basic logic.

Conservative councils like Trafford have faced far smaller budget cuts from central government than Labour councils like Manchester. It's the classic Tory tactic, defund labour councils and blame them for the consequences.

Reply 30

ChaoticButterfly

Original post by Connor27

Funny that, you live in Cheshire, where the council is run by who again? Oh yeah, those evil inhumane Tories...

Try living in one of the actual **** Northern councils; Kirklees, Calderdale, Bradford. Any of the ones with a Labour executive (with the possible exception of Leeds.) Then you'll see waste.

Cheshire is the North's own South, it really isn't that representative of the north as a whole. Especially the industrial (or post industrial bits). As someone who lives there :yucky:

Last election got my seat down to a 6000 majority which is massive compared to how much of a blue safe seat it is. Who knows, maybe it will be a surprise next election :beard:

Why do I have a Mormon MP? :afraid:

Original post by Connor27

Certainly more typical of the north in general than the overwhelmingly Tory council in East Cheshire that ByEeek cited (which if anything proved my point that it is Labour incompetence and waste that causes the problems.)

Yes because places like Prestbury are in dire need of social provision.

"Prestbury is a village and civil parish in Cheshire, England. About 1.5 miles north of Macclesfield, at the 2001 census, it had a population of 3,324, increasing slightly to 3,471 at the 2011 Census. Alongside fellow "Cheshire Golden Triangle" villages Wilmslow and Alderley Edge, it is one of the most sought after and expensive places to live outside London."

Spoiler

Come the revolution the Macclesfield labourers will eat the Presberyians. Who do they think they are with thier stupid 20mph speed limit?

Original post by Rakas21

Although IDS had good ideas, i consider him the least competent cabinet minister in the entire Tory government. He was unable to property implement almost anything.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 31

Fullofsurprises

Original post by Anonymous

Does anyone think that this Tory government is crap, as they keep on making things difficult for the working class even middle class. This government is only good for the super rich.

It's more a question of is there anyone left outside the Tory Party and their parasites and hangers on in the media who don't think it's crap?

It's not even really a government - they are stumbling on in office by the grace and favour of one of the worst and nastiest political parties in Europe, the DUP. Even that is starting to slip.

I give them 6 months now.

Reply 32

Fullofsurprises

Original post by Rakas21

Although IDS had good ideas, i consider him the least competent cabinet minister in the entire Tory government. He was unable to property implement almost anything.

I'm surprised you as a right winger think that - he's done a splendid job of demolishing the benefits system, making it increasingly unworkable for claimants, forcing them onto food banks and payday lenders - isn't that basically what today's Tory activist wants from their 'government'?

Reply 33

Rakas21

21

Original post by Fullofsurprises

I'm surprised you as a right winger think that - he's done a splendid job of demolishing the benefits system, making it increasingly unworkable for claimants, forcing them onto food banks and payday lenders - isn't that basically what today's Tory activist wants from their 'government'?

That's because you don't understand my politics.

Reply 34

username1799249

Original post by Connor27

Funny that, you live in Cheshire, where the council is run by who again? Oh yeah, those evil inhumane Tories...

Try living in one of the actual **** Northern councils; Kirklees, Calderdale, Bradford. Any of the ones with a Labour executive (with the possible exception of Leeds.) Then you'll see waste.

Actually incorrect. My local council was up until recently run by the Lib Dems but now has no overall majority and a Labour leader. Between 2010 and 2020, they are having to make £100 million in cuts. And that is for a population of around 284,000. The schools in my area see some of the lowest levels of funding in the country and if May had got her new funding formula through, they would have seen cuts of up to £400 per student which for my local primary would have been around £400k or 10 teachers! Manchester and surrounding councils have had it worse. We have also been given a mayor despite voting overwhelmingly in a referendum not to have a mayor.

And yes - you are right. Cheshire are doing ok under the Tories.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 35

Fullofsurprises

Original post by Rakas21

That's because you don't understand my politics.

Well, credit to you if you don't think those are good things. I always get the impression that IDS simply doesn't care about the consequences of his actions on the poorest and most vulnerable - the same can be said for many Tory politicians. All that guff St Theresa of Mayfair came out with about the left behind when she came into office has proven to be so much hot air.

Reply 36

Castro Saint

18

Don't worry OP it will be over soon

Reply 37

ChaoticButterfly