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Do you think Northern Ireland is a burden to the UK?

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Original post by ByEeek
It does if they end up with a hard border. And we will just disagree on what democracy is.


Democracy is the majority vote of anything being enacted.

As for a hard boarder the uk is long putting one up regardless, so we won’t have broken it.

Also the eu has been using the Irish boarder as a negotiation to try and keep us in certain projects like the customs union from the start.

The Irish have said they aren’t putting a boarder up and so have we.

If neither of us are then who is going to?
Original post by paul514
Democracy is the majority vote of anything being enacted.

As for a hard boarder the uk is long putting one up regardless, so we won’t have broken it.

Also the eu has been using the Irish boarder as a negotiation to try and keep us in certain projects like the customs union from the start.

The Irish have said they aren’t putting a boarder up and so have we.

If neither of us are then who is going to?


Agreed that democracy ends in a vote where the majority win. But in our parliamentary democracy, both sides debate, compromise and amend. It is rarely winner takes all, especially if half will potentially lose. In the Brexit referendum, there was no debate. It was just "who shouts loudest". And I don't know anyone who can say it is a good thing. It has torn our country apart. It has split all the political parties and everyone is just fighting. Even on here! How is that a good thing? I have already lost out financially to Brexit. Holidays are way more expensive than they were and my pension has devalued slightly. Come next year, the cost of living is going to rise significantly as the pound devalues further. Its the economy stupid!

As for borders. It is quite simple - either we have a border or we don't. And if we don't or Ireland don't there will be consequences. We can't have our cake and eat it. We are the small fish in this negotiation and Ireland are even smaller.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by the bear
what i like about NI is that the people are still serious about things. on the mainland nobody is serious except Mr Rees-Mogg.


:lol: Heaven help us. :getmecoat:
There is definitely exaggeration on both sides about the border issue - the EU and Ireland are overstating the extent to which a hard border will be needed without being in the CU or SM and the DUP and some Tories are overegging the extent to which staying in the CU and/or SM would make a huge difference to Northern Ireland.

We are only facing all this pain because the Tories cynically rely on the morally and politically bankrupt, medieval DUP to keep them in office.

It's also increasingly obvious that NI and Ireland should now form one political unit, or else (perish the thought) we should create a new trading Union of the Islands and Ireland can join. In every way that matters, Ireland is integrated with the UK economy anyway. The DUP are like a stone in the shoe that stops the athlete running.
Reply 64
Original post by Fullofsurprises
There is definitely exaggeration on both sides about the border issue - the EU and Ireland are overstating the extent to which a hard border will be needed without being in the CU or SM and the DUP and some Tories are overegging the extent to which staying in the CU and/or SM would make a huge difference to Northern Ireland.

We are only facing all this pain because the Tories cynically rely on the morally and politically bankrupt, medieval DUP to keep them in office.


I really don't think the DUP are significant players in all of this. They don't have particularly strong views on the border issue. It was really raised by the Irish Government, the European Commission and the Remain campaign. Even if the DUP wasn't supporting the Government, I don't think the question of the Irish border would be any more straightforward.
Reply 65
Northern Ireland has been nothing but a lead weight around the English government for decade's and untold amounts of money has been piled into the country that provides very little benefit to England. The sooner we can get rid of NI the better. They are holding up Brexit to suit themselves and they are so argumentive they cannot even hold their own assembly in Storming. Cut them off with nothing and hand the keys to Dublin!
Bumped just one day short of a year after the previous post. :moon:
Original post by Ng08drx
Northern Ireland has been nothing but a lead weight around the English government for decade's and untold amounts of money has been piled into the country that provides very little benefit to England. The sooner we can get rid of NI the better. They are holding up Brexit to suit themselves and they are so argumentive they cannot even hold their own assembly in Storming. Cut them off with nothing and hand the keys to Dublin!


There would have been a 99.9% chance that the UK would have left the EU many months ago if it only comprised of England, Wales, and Scotland.

The border with southern Ireland is what is causing all the problems, not a trade deal between mainland Britain and the EU.

It will probably be easier for Germany with its 9 international borders to leave the EU than the UK because there are no issues with disputed territory and political tensions that could erupt in violent terrorism. A hard border is what is normally expected between a non-EU country and an EU member state, but this completely rips up the Good Friday Agreement.

The truth is that the Good Friday Agreement is a major factor why the Lib-Lab-Con parties have been so solidly pro-EU since 1998. UKIP didn't bother with participation in Northern Ireland politics back in the 1990s and early 2000s so just tried to conveniently brush the issue under the carpet whilst focusing on economic concerns.

There has never been a time in history when one Ireland has been a member of the EU and the other Ireland has been outside the EU. Both the UK and Ireland joined the EU on the same day.

The government does not have the intelligence or the courage to consider holding a second EU referendum only in Northern Ireland to determine what sort of deal the residents of this far flung province of the UK wants or where the hard border should be located.

Neither does the main opposition party. They want a second referendum for the entire UK with Remain as an option.

DUP wants an iron curtain with southern Ireland but knows that the (changed over the decades) demographics of Northern Ireland will reject even a CCTV camera at the border crossing points if given the choice in a referendum. That's why they aren't calling for a second referendum in Northern Ireland.

Regardless of what the deal is for Brexit or where the hard border is placed, Brexit ultimately represents the end of Northern Ireland in the Union. It's not a matter of if but when.
Original post by L i b
I really don't think the DUP are significant players in all of this. They don't have particularly strong views on the border issue. It was really raised by the Irish Government, the European Commission and the Remain campaign. Even if the DUP wasn't supporting the Government, I don't think the question of the Irish border would be any more straightforward.

Interesting to think about this topic a year on. It seems the DUP do care about the border, or at least go through the motions of doing so. Actually I think they are now trying to respond to modern opinion in Northern Ireland, which has significantly depolarised on these issues and is now very much in favour of open trade, borders and co-operation with the Republic.
To an extent, but not early as much as Scotland and the north of England.
Original post by C.Goodyear
To an extent, but not early as much as Scotland and the north of England.


The north of England or really the outside of London has been designed to be a burden as the people making decisions of what investment policies to pursue looked solely at the highest ROI and put the money into London.

A poor policy.
Original post by paul514
The north of England or really the outside of London has been designed to be a burden as the people making decisions of what investment policies to pursue looked solely at the highest ROI and put the money into London.

A poor policy.

It was never a "policy", those places were always less developed because they are a lot further away from the major trading ports and thus economic activity.
Original post by C.Goodyear
It was never a "policy", those places were always less developed because they are a lot further away from the major trading ports and thus economic activity.


Yes it was policy, the government for many decades has looked at investment in a very limited way and given the little it has invested to the very highest ROI projects which means London.

I really don’t know what you are going on about with ports as all of these places are right next to them we have a small country.
Original post by paul514
Yes it was policy, the government for many decades has looked at investment in a very limited way and given the little it has invested to the very highest ROI projects which means London.

I really don’t know what you are going on about with ports as all of these places are right next to them we have a small country.

Only a small percentage of investment is derived from central government, the vast majority of it is from private enterprise.

In modern terms the country is small, but these issues go back hundreds of years, even back to the Roman Empire when the Celts lived on much longer than the English with their barbaric lifestyles because they were not influenced by the much more civilised Romans.
Reply 74
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Interesting to think about this topic a year on. It seems the DUP do care about the border, or at least go through the motions of doing so. Actually I think they are now trying to respond to modern opinion in Northern Ireland, which has significantly depolarised on these issues and is now very much in favour of open trade, borders and co-operation with the Republic.

I think it's fair to say that open borders, trade and co-operation with the Republic is no longer a particularly polarised issue. Far more people are comfortable with it than they were in the past.

The biggest bugbear with the DUP - and I actually agree with them to a large extent on this one - is the cost of creating internal barriers with Great Britain. Which is their central objection to the new Withdrawal Agreement and the arrangements there.
Original post by L i b
I think it's fair to say that open borders, trade and co-operation with the Republic is no longer a particularly polarised issue. Far more people are comfortable with it than they were in the past.

The biggest bugbear with the DUP - and I actually agree with them to a large extent on this one - is the cost of creating internal barriers with Great Britain. Which is their central objection to the new Withdrawal Agreement and the arrangements there.

Yes, I actually agreed with most of the remarks DUP members made on Saturday, they are understandably put out by the way this is shaping up.

Are you watching the House just now, did you catch Hilary Benn raising serious questions over the veracity of the Protocol and statements by the PM about the border protocols? It seems that the waters are muddy!
Original post by Conorcinny02
I live in the north of Ireland and the funny thing is, they dup think they are British but the British think they are Irish .Politics as a whole in NI is a joke, DUP is a laughing stock to the rest of Europe! Ireland should reunite to stay in the EU! Or else face consequences in coming years


You were right :smile:

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