Original post by Rabbit2When i started in engineering (as a technician) [this was in 1963], many of the people doing engineering work in the small company i worked for did NOT have degrees. One fellow had a master's degree in engineering. He was seen as our 'resident guru'. I worked for them for several years, and eventually ended up running a NASA program that was part of the 'manned spacecraft' program. Considering that i didn't even have an "associate's" degree - which is a 2 year degree - this was an achievement of note - although i didn't see it as such at the time - i was just making the hardware 'play' for the customer, after the project manager left the company. Today, this would NEVER happen. He would be replaced with a fresh hire from outside, and i would be forced to try and 'train' the fresh hire to run the project. Considering that i had been working on it for nearly 3 years - that would be some volume of training.
I saw the 'handwriting on the wall', and decided to go back and get a bachelor's degree. I had no 'role model' to follow. Me dad never finished 8th grade, and me mum finished high school, and then took a 3 month secretarial course to learn to be a secretary. She devoted the rest of her life doing this, when she wasn't raising me. I got into a small uni, and got my grade point average up, and then applied to a small engineering school. I went to work for the US Federal government as an electrical engineer. After 8 to 10 years, i noted that more and more job applicants, fresh from a uni, were walking in the door with master's degrees already. Deciding that i needed to 'upgrade' my skills, i got myself into a master's program near D.C., and eventually (7 yrs later) ended up with a master's degree.
Today, if you wanted a job at other than the basic 'working level' - say you wanted to be the deputy helping run a small engineering group that supported signal processing, you would absolutely have to have a bachelor's degree. In most liklihood, you would need to have a master's degree to even get an interview for the job. If you had only the bachelor's, the chances are that you would be passed over for the job, if they had had an applicant who DID have the masters. Bear in mind that the people making these hire decisions, in most cases would NOT have a master's degree in engineering. They possibly would have a bachelor's, but would have worked for 15 to 20 years - doing no real engineering at all. Very likely, they could not draw the schematic of a simple power supply, or explain how something as simple as a single conversion superhetrodyne receiver worked. This is not fair, not ethical (in my humble opinion), but it is the way the world works now. An added advantage of having an advanced degree, is that you can teach (at UNI) in the case of an economic slowdown. Many people teach with a masters, whilst they work on their doctorate.
I had several engineering contractors building equipment for me, when i worked for the US Federal government. These contractors were all over the country, many in places like the 'midwest' - places like Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina..... Most of them were 'small' businesses (although not minority owned, or predominately minority staffed). Many of their staff had no degrees, an associate's degree, or in some cases a bachelor's. These companies had often been started by WW2 veterans, who got into electronics during the war, went back to uni under the "GI Bill", and got their degrees. The veterans, for the most part, built their companies up (often with their wives & other relatives help) very successfully - to the point that they were doing multi-million $ contracts. In due time, the founders of the companies, decided that they were 'getting along' in age, and wanted to retire. Unfortunately, with all the engineering, they had not produced children - or - in a couple of cases, the children were not at all interested in engineering. The founder's then sold their companies - several of which had several hundred or tens of thousands of employees.
Large companies bought these [now 'mid-sized' companies], stripped the assets out, and dumped them. The employees, only a few of which had advanced degrees, were faced with finding new jobs, while living in a 'non-industrialized' area - like central Ohio, where there were NO opportunities in 'Electronic Warfare' or intelligence. They also had the disadvantage of owning houses in these areas, where it was nearly impossible to sell them, or even to rent them for enough to cover the mortgage payment. Their previous employer [now defunct], had been the largest employer in the area, and had been paying about 70% of the salary which the employee could have gotten in the Washington, D.C. area for the same work. Of course, the living costs [food, house prices, etc], would have been much higher than they were paying in Ohio, eating up nearly all of the salary difference.
Nearly all of these employees (most of whom i had worked with) had a very rough time finding other employment. A few of them found overseas employment. The rented out their homes, dumped - or gave away, much of their stuff, and went to live overseas. The only assets they had (in the employment area) was their advanced security clearances - which were only an asset if they found a prospective employer that needed them [meaning that the employer's customer was the Federal Government, and it required the employees to have those clearances - many of which required 2 or 3 years of investigation to get]. Those employees who had dependents, had to accustom their dependents to living without 'quality of life' features such as 'flush plumbing', 'central (or any) heat', and the availability of restaurants and shopping [for clothes and food] that were fairly convenient. Some people can adapt to things like this, i have on several occasions. Others view not having heating in their residence (other than a small wood stove) as akin to living under a bridge.
When all this was going on (over about 8 years), i was glad that i had an advanced degree & a job in an area where i could find alternate employment if i looked around a bit. My experience in engineering (which is where most of my experience is), is that there are plenty of 'street sweepers' around. While the economy is good, there are jobs. When things 'go south' - as they are in Venezuela right now - the 'easy' jobs disappear. Yes, you CAN make good money without a degree, and without security clearances too. But it's harder, and the job security isn't there (at least in my experience). Cheers.