College refuse to give me student card
I started an English free course in a college taught by students who study to be teachers and I have been refused a student card, to be enrolled and access to the facilities of the college.
I have made a complaint and the college has replied to me the following:
“As you are aware, this is a class is taught by our trainee students and offered to volunteer adult learners hoping to improve their English. There is no enrolment onto this class and no qualification is completed. Learners are given temporary visitor passes for the duration of the classes allowing them access to the lessons but not wider College facilities.”
I have already studied this same course three years ago and we were enrolled and given a student card and the college replied to me the following:
“I note your last enrolment was in 2019/2020. We review our procedures each year and I can confirm that we do not currently issue student ID cards to volunteers attending our Free English classes.”
I would like to know if the college is acting legally for the following reasons:
3. It is not fair that the students of this course are discriminated and treated like “second class students”
4. Another reason why the students of this free English course should be given a Student Card and be officially registered in the college as students is because their teachers, who are themselves also students because they are not yet fully qualified teachers, are officially registered in the college and as a consequence they are given a Student Card which enables them to use all the facilities of the college like computers and library.
5. Moreover, it does not make any sense that the students of this free English course are studying in the college without being officially students of it.
6. The college considers students of this course as volunteers and not real students, I would like to know if in this case the college should at least give us a volunteer contract
I have made a complaint and the college has replied to me the following:
“As you are aware, this is a class is taught by our trainee students and offered to volunteer adult learners hoping to improve their English. There is no enrolment onto this class and no qualification is completed. Learners are given temporary visitor passes for the duration of the classes allowing them access to the lessons but not wider College facilities.”
I have already studied this same course three years ago and we were enrolled and given a student card and the college replied to me the following:
“I note your last enrolment was in 2019/2020. We review our procedures each year and I can confirm that we do not currently issue student ID cards to volunteers attending our Free English classes.”
I would like to know if the college is acting legally for the following reasons:
1.
1. This course is a course like any other courses for the following reasons:
2.
a) It is four hours per week and it runs during the academy year.
•
b) It is free but others course could also be free. And, it is not the fault of the students if this course is free, the college can charge a fee if it wishes.
•
c) It is taught by students who want to be teachers but it is supervised by two teachers from the college and one of the two is always present in the classroom during the lesson.
•
2. The students of this course are students of English like other students of English and of other courses who need to use the facilities of the college like the computers, the library..etc to help them to learn.
3. It is not fair that the students of this course are discriminated and treated like “second class students”
4. Another reason why the students of this free English course should be given a Student Card and be officially registered in the college as students is because their teachers, who are themselves also students because they are not yet fully qualified teachers, are officially registered in the college and as a consequence they are given a Student Card which enables them to use all the facilities of the college like computers and library.
5. Moreover, it does not make any sense that the students of this free English course are studying in the college without being officially students of it.
6. The college considers students of this course as volunteers and not real students, I would like to know if in this case the college should at least give us a volunteer contract
Scroll to see replies
If you’re not happy then leave the course.
It’s quite normal for colleges to not give ID cards or enrol people who are studying courses that don’t result in a formal qualification.
It’s quite normal for colleges to not give ID cards or enrol people who are studying courses that don’t result in a formal qualification.
It should depends of the duration of the course and who organise it. I remember that many yeas ago the Jobcentre sent me for one day course in a college and obviously for one day only the college is not going to give a student cards.However, it should be a different matter for a course lasting all the academic year.
Moreover, this was a course organised by the Jobcentre only for people registered as unemployed but it was not a course of the college
Can you provide me with examples of courses from a college itself lasting all the academic year for which students are not officially enrolled as students and students card are not given to them
There should be some official rules concerning this issue and I would like to know them
Moreover, this was a course organised by the Jobcentre only for people registered as unemployed but it was not a course of the college
Can you provide me with examples of courses from a college itself lasting all the academic year for which students are not officially enrolled as students and students card are not given to them
There should be some official rules concerning this issue and I would like to know them
Original post by profile
It should depends of the duration of the course and who organise it. I remember that many yeas ago the Jobcentre sent me for one day course in a college and obviously for one day only the college is not going to give a student cards.However, it should be a different matter for a course lasting all the academic year.
Moreover, this was a course organised by the Jobcentre only for people registered as unemployed but it was not a course of the college
Can you provide me with examples of courses from a college itself lasting all the academic year for which students are not officially enrolled as students and students card are not given to them
There should be some official rules concerning this issue and I would like to know them
Moreover, this was a course organised by the Jobcentre only for people registered as unemployed but it was not a course of the college
Can you provide me with examples of courses from a college itself lasting all the academic year for which students are not officially enrolled as students and students card are not given to them
There should be some official rules concerning this issue and I would like to know them
Pretty much any course that doesn’t result in a qualification will be the same.
why do you want a card?
What is the official rule which says that for courses which last all the academic year but do not result in a formal qualification the students are not officially enrolled as students of the college. There are rules for anything so there should also be rules about this issue.
I want a card because as a student of English like any other students of English I need to use the facilities of the college like the computers and the library to improve my English especially that this course like the other English course lasts all the academic year.
Moreover, there should have been a change in the rules since three yeas ago which justifies this decision not to treat anymore the students of this English course like the students of the others English courses because otherwise it will be a dictatorial arbitrary decision of a civil servant of the college because three years ago the students of this course were enrolled official as students and treated like the other students of the college
s.
I want a card because as a student of English like any other students of English I need to use the facilities of the college like the computers and the library to improve my English especially that this course like the other English course lasts all the academic year.
Moreover, there should have been a change in the rules since three yeas ago which justifies this decision not to treat anymore the students of this English course like the students of the others English courses because otherwise it will be a dictatorial arbitrary decision of a civil servant of the college because three years ago the students of this course were enrolled official as students and treated like the other students of the college
s.
(edited 5 months ago)
Original post by profile
What is the official rule which says that for courses which last all the academic year but do not result in a formal qualification the students are not officially enrolled as students of the college. There are rules for anything so there should also be rules about this issue.
I want a card because as a student of English like any other students of English I need to use the facilities of the college like the computers and the library to improve my English especially that this course like the other English course lasts all the academic year.
Moreover, there should have been a change in the rules since three yeas ago which justifies this decision not to treat anymore the students of this English course like the students of the others English courses because otherwise it will be a dictatorial arbitrary decision of a civil servant of the college because three years ago the students of this course were enrolled official as students and treated like the other students of the college
s.
I want a card because as a student of English like any other students of English I need to use the facilities of the college like the computers and the library to improve my English especially that this course like the other English course lasts all the academic year.
Moreover, there should have been a change in the rules since three yeas ago which justifies this decision not to treat anymore the students of this English course like the students of the others English courses because otherwise it will be a dictatorial arbitrary decision of a civil servant of the college because three years ago the students of this course were enrolled official as students and treated like the other students of the college
s.
The official rule is that it’s up to a course provider to decide what to provide to people taking various courses.
If you want a card and library access then you need to switch to a course that offers that.
(edited 5 months ago)
This complaint sounds like a massive waste of time. You've misunderstood what was being offered to you and they make it clear they consider you a visitor rather than an enrolled student. The body of your complaint relies upon building this 'course' into something that it's clearly not
You say "It is not fair that the students of this course are discriminated and treated like “second class students” - Well it kind of is and you are a second class student - sorry, all students are not equal.
You've got no leverage against them, they don't owe you anywhere near the same experience or duty of care or whatever as an enrolled student of member of staff and you're unlikely to get any further discussion from them on this beyond 'Don't come back'
You say "It is not fair that the students of this course are discriminated and treated like “second class students” - Well it kind of is and you are a second class student - sorry, all students are not equal.
You've got no leverage against them, they don't owe you anywhere near the same experience or duty of care or whatever as an enrolled student of member of staff and you're unlikely to get any further discussion from them on this beyond 'Don't come back'
Original post by profile
Original post by profile
What is the official rule which says that for courses which last all the academic year but do not result in a formal qualification the students are not officially enrolled as students of the college. There are rules for anything so there should also be rules about this issue.
I want a card because as a student of English like any other students of English I need to use the facilities of the college like the computers and the library to improve my English especially that this course like the other English course lasts all the academic year.
Moreover, there should have been a change in the rules since three yeas ago which justifies this decision not to treat anymore the students of this English course like the students of the others English courses because otherwise it will be a dictatorial arbitrary decision of a civil servant of the college because three years ago the students of this course were enrolled official as students and treated like the other students of the college
s.
I want a card because as a student of English like any other students of English I need to use the facilities of the college like the computers and the library to improve my English especially that this course like the other English course lasts all the academic year.
Moreover, there should have been a change in the rules since three yeas ago which justifies this decision not to treat anymore the students of this English course like the students of the others English courses because otherwise it will be a dictatorial arbitrary decision of a civil servant of the college because three years ago the students of this course were enrolled official as students and treated like the other students of the college
s.
Your English is fine and has been for at least the past 9 years, according to your posts on TSR.
(edited 5 months ago)
IMO, I think the college is right. If there is no formal enrolment, IDs should not be granted as they have no means of fact checking this information.
Strictly speaking, whilst you may be attending classes, you are not actually a student by default as they have no information on yourself so, I think the college is in the right on this one.
Second class citizenship is irrelevant in this as you put it too. If someone wanted hypothetically, they could walk into one of my lectures and learn what it is I’m learning (I’m doing a MSc in Biomedical Science), it doesn’t mean they are a student, it just means they are there learning something as the campus is freely used and is not required to be a student to use the facilities (minus out of hours where you need an ID and the IT facilities obviously).
If I’m also not mistaken, I think there is a minimum amount of time per week to be deemed a “student”. Part time I believe is 20 hours and full time is 37.5 hours, including any hours you are expected to complete in your own study session. For example, I do 3-4 hours per day of on campus sessions being practical and study sessions, the rest of my time, I’m expected to fill it with my own study sessions (self study) and coursework.
Strictly speaking, whilst you may be attending classes, you are not actually a student by default as they have no information on yourself so, I think the college is in the right on this one.
Second class citizenship is irrelevant in this as you put it too. If someone wanted hypothetically, they could walk into one of my lectures and learn what it is I’m learning (I’m doing a MSc in Biomedical Science), it doesn’t mean they are a student, it just means they are there learning something as the campus is freely used and is not required to be a student to use the facilities (minus out of hours where you need an ID and the IT facilities obviously).
If I’m also not mistaken, I think there is a minimum amount of time per week to be deemed a “student”. Part time I believe is 20 hours and full time is 37.5 hours, including any hours you are expected to complete in your own study session. For example, I do 3-4 hours per day of on campus sessions being practical and study sessions, the rest of my time, I’m expected to fill it with my own study sessions (self study) and coursework.
(edited 5 months ago)
What a waste of everyone's time.
Original post by profile
It is not a private college which does what it wishes but a public one funded by taxpayers.
There should be rules about this what are they?.
Until we do not know them we cannot have a reliable answer
There should be rules about this what are they?.
Until we do not know them we cannot have a reliable answer
They told you what their rules were, you just don't like them. If they don't wish to consider you an enrolled student you can't make them.
I doubt that college is getting 1 penny of taxpayer money or fees for you, but you feel entitled to its facilities. for... reasons?
Original post by profile
It is not a private college which does what it wishes but a public one funded by taxpayers.
There should be rules about this what are they?.
Until we do not know them we cannot have a reliable answer
There should be rules about this what are they?.
Until we do not know them we cannot have a reliable answer
Doesn’t matter if it’s public or private. You aren’t studying a formal qualification there so the funding is irrelevant. That means the rule that applies is it’s their choice.
If you want an ID card and access to the library then do a different course
Not only the students of this course cannot access the computers and the library to improve their English like other students of English but they are also not entitled to the following other services:
1. Career service
2. Welfare service
3. Sport activities
4. Club activities
5. To register in the National Student Union
Hence, it makes a big difference so it is an important matter.
We are either a student, an employee or a volunteer
The college say that I am not official enrolled because I am what it calls a
“volunteer adult learner”
However, a volunteer is someone who works for free for an organisation but these students does not work for the college so they cannot be volunteer so they could be only be students
My written English could be good but my oral English is that good. Moreover, when English is not our first language we have always something to learn in English especially in grammar.
The college is not forced to run this course and could charge a fee for it
We are a tiny number of students in comparison of the total number of students of the college so we can wonder how much the college thinks it will save by having changed the rules and treating us differently that the other students?
Other students do a lot less than 20 hours per week and are officially enrolled so again we need to know the law.
If there is a law which says that when we do not study for a formal qualification we do not have the right to be officially enrolled in the college we need to know it.
To sort out this issue we need to know the law. Until we do not know the law about this issue we do not know about what we are talking
1. Career service
2. Welfare service
3. Sport activities
4. Club activities
5. To register in the National Student Union
Hence, it makes a big difference so it is an important matter.
We are either a student, an employee or a volunteer
The college say that I am not official enrolled because I am what it calls a
“volunteer adult learner”
However, a volunteer is someone who works for free for an organisation but these students does not work for the college so they cannot be volunteer so they could be only be students
My written English could be good but my oral English is that good. Moreover, when English is not our first language we have always something to learn in English especially in grammar.
The college is not forced to run this course and could charge a fee for it
We are a tiny number of students in comparison of the total number of students of the college so we can wonder how much the college thinks it will save by having changed the rules and treating us differently that the other students?
Other students do a lot less than 20 hours per week and are officially enrolled so again we need to know the law.
If there is a law which says that when we do not study for a formal qualification we do not have the right to be officially enrolled in the college we need to know it.
To sort out this issue we need to know the law. Until we do not know the law about this issue we do not know about what we are talking
There's not going to be a 'law' which determines whether adult learners are issued an ID card at a college.
Maybe you should write to your MP about this? You obviously don’t believe us so talk to someone who makes the law.
Original post by profile
We are either a student, an employee or a volunteer
The college say that I am not official enrolled because I am what it calls a
“volunteer adult learner”
However, a volunteer is someone who works for free for an organisation but these students does not work for the college so they cannot be volunteer so they could be only be students
The college say that I am not official enrolled because I am what it calls a
“volunteer adult learner”
However, a volunteer is someone who works for free for an organisation but these students does not work for the college so they cannot be volunteer so they could be only be students
No, a 'volunteer' doesn't just refer to employment, it can simply mean you choose to do something and just like that there goes your fragile argument tbh
You seem to struggle with the idea that they simply don't owe you anything and you have next to no leverage over them, they have made themselves clear and your choices are essentially to stay or go. This idea of 2nd class or 'visitor' students isn't a new or uncommon one.
Even volunteers should be enrolled in the college as volunteers
If there is no law that the college has to give a student card to adult learners there is certainly a law concerning when the college can refuse to register a student as a student
If I go through all the steps of the complaint procedure the college will have to prove that it based its decision to treat these students differently that other students on the law otherwise it will be the law of the jungle. Hence, the burden of proof is on the college..
Colleges are managed according to the law and for the time being no-one in this forum has put forward any law which authorises the college to behave in this way.
It will be a serious matter if the college has the right to treat students differently without any legal grounds this will be an open door to discrimination
If there is no law that the college has to give a student card to adult learners there is certainly a law concerning when the college can refuse to register a student as a student
If I go through all the steps of the complaint procedure the college will have to prove that it based its decision to treat these students differently that other students on the law otherwise it will be the law of the jungle. Hence, the burden of proof is on the college..
Colleges are managed according to the law and for the time being no-one in this forum has put forward any law which authorises the college to behave in this way.
It will be a serious matter if the college has the right to treat students differently without any legal grounds this will be an open door to discrimination
(edited 5 months ago)
The law of the jungle 
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