How to be attractive (all of TSR should read this)

Without being rude, how much have you actually put yourself out there? I've seen a few friends do it and their social skills always improved at least noticeably. Perhaps you're labelling yourself as "below average socially" and this is hurting your self-confidence? Obviously, if you go into a room feeling unconfident it's probably going to affect the way you interact with other people/body language etc. And when you say you've spent years working on it, maybe you're overanalysing? That would probably make it harder for you to socialise

Also, are you hanging around with the same or similiar groups of people? I used to have a lot of very "academic/intellectual" friends through doing a particular hobby, who knew me from a time I was slightly more introverted. I didn't entirely "click with" and relate to them at the start and I didn't till I moved away and we no longer hung out, either. Some types of people just don't "gel"; I get on perfectly with other extroverted people who are into partying and sports and all that, and I'm fine with that.

So maybe try interacting with a new group of people? if someone already sees you as "the awkward person" it can be very hard to change that perception. Also, without stereotyping people certain groups (especially the geekier types) can be very hard to break into plus having relatively bad social skills themselves - sometimes it isn't always your fault.



Nobody "has" to read stuff like "The Game" or "The Rules." As said above, stuff like that will almost certainly get you more of a reputation for being a bit of a weirdo (no offence) than anything else, what with the outlandish stuff they proclaim. But, as to why some people are good with the opposite sex without ever picking up a book like this, again it comes down to social skills. Knowing how to get on with people. Nobody's just "born" that way.

Define "seduction technique".

If it's something a guy would probably be doing anyway (e.g. being curious about the girl's life, putting your hand on her arm or something), the label is irrelevant as it's hardly some fancy, ground-breaking technique. If it's something he wouldn't (like coming up with a bizarre "neg" or wearing a feather boa and hat in the middle of a club to "peacock"), one will notice.

Unless you've learned how to Jedi mind trick people. If you do, please PM me, I pay well for this stuff

Yes but you realise that that is developing a good personality. Having confidence and balls are very attractive traits, in essence all these "seduction" books are self-help material to help develop you as a person. If you have no self-esteem or confidence and you tremble like a leaf even when a girl is sitting next to you, no amount of excercise will help that. There are great body builders with amazing bodies that have self-confidence issues. Just telling someone with no social skills to just develop them is about as easy as telling a blind man to open his eyes and see. You need to know where to start and what's most important. Not to mention a lot of the PUAs have mountains of experience under their belt, so they know the fastest way to get to where you want, instead of yourself having to do a **** load of trial and error for yourself. They're methods are unorthodox and unfamiliar, but it's still personality development. They learn through habituation to no longer fear rejection to alter their posture, eye contact, touch. This is all personality development, they're not tricks or shortcuts by any means. PUAs have to go through a 6 month pain period of being constantly rejected over and over again, multiple times a night, multiple nights a week. That's not exactly quick or easy.

See, for some people you're *always* going to be improving, and especially in some cases it will never feel natural and you'll always feel uncomfortable but force yourself to go through with it. The OP is actually giving very good advice in that regard; there's no easy/cheat route and you have to put yourself out there and make yourself to interact with others [as you know, but some don't.] It's certainly better than being alone.

Well there's stuff like canned openers, where you pre plan an interesting topic, often asking her opinion on a relationship (probably fictional). If the guy does that without looking weird, there's no reason for you to doubt it. Obviously a "bizarre" neg is a bad neg. One my mate uses with very attractive girls, which is both evil and effective, is to touch his face as if the girl accidently spat as she spoke.

I don't think it's anything miraculous, the main benefit is making a guy feel he's in control. But there are some good tips in there.

See, for some people you're *always* going to be improving, and especially in some cases it will never feel natural and you'll always feel uncomfortable but force yourself to go through with it. The OP is actually giving very good advice in that regard; there's no easy/cheat route and you have to put yourself out there and make yourself to interact with others [as you know, but some don't.] It's certainly better than being alone.

What is it that books like the The Game say thats so outlandish?

PUA books are definitely not the best way to develop social skills. I agree that they contain some useful info (e.g. how to become more confident), but the problem is that the other stuff they suggest (at least what I've read) will still mess up your social skills.

As said before, there are some great books on socialising and improving your confidence. PUA books are not one of them. It is noteworthy that they never sell themselves as "how to improve your social skills with people," but rather "how to pull 10000 hotties."

Examples of BS advice I have seen in those books:

-it retards your attitude towards the opposite sex by encouraging guys to basically show no respect towards women and banging on about evo psych, how women are "wired to" think etc. (For why evo psych is completely flawed as science, Google it). Not only will this affect the girls you're trying to hit on, but also your female friends generally. I've known guy acquaintances who tried PUA stuff, and I no longer hang out with them 'cause they're obnoxious little creeps with the weirdest attitude towards women.

-it retards your attitude towards the same sex by encouraging you to think of yourself (and other guys) as a failure if you get turned down by women, and peddling some weird myth of "high value males" who get all the women and apparently you should try to pretend you are. I can guarantee you that, if you're not generally considered successful or attractive, a PUA book won't help matters

-The two above alone will turn you into a social misfit if you listen to them

-"with the right effort/being pushy enough, you can have almost any girl you want" - no, you can't, even if you were really "attractive" by almost any measure. A lot of these books seem to suggest that even an unattractive with bad social skills (which reading a PUA book won't bolster much due to above reasons) and no social life can get dates with really attractive girls regularly if he tries, which quite frankly is deluding yourself

-Confidence in social situations is good, but the kind of stuff these guys peddle (stuff like trying to destroy a girl's self-esteem/touching her when it's not wanted/getting off with her friends in front of her) is obvious to anyone with half a brain, and will make you appear like a creep and weirdo

-"If you have no self-esteem or confidence and you tremble like a leaf even when a girl is sitting next to you" - then you need to fix the actual root of the problem, maybe you don't know where you're going in life or more likely you have zero social skills. Nowhere did I say exercise was the only solution. Treating women like crap and adopting a weird attitude towards them won't solve this problem.

oh but I mean
oh
well what
oh
okay

Just asking the obvious question. Not necessarily disagreeing or anything.

But how then did the original PUAs who were all really really unattractive

yetalso all put these very techniques ito practise,manage to pull so many

beautiful women in your opinion?

Are you making a misc reference?

I don't get it. I am disappoint.

I can confirm, I am n00b.

Read my above reply.

They promote a creepy attitude towards women. It's little wonder guys who try that sort of thing get labelled creeps.

Biuriful post, I wonder how many will actually take heed of your words though.

I've done it plenty (and I've improved plenty), but it's still very difficult (and I expect it will always be) to make it feel natural.

Nope, one of the people I'm closest to is the most confident, out-going person I've met. Most of my friends are more extraverted than I am.

I meant that they never had to read about anything at all. People that do read books and research it are those who're looking for any means possible to improve themselves. It isn't coming naturally to them so they have to piece it together from somewhere.

I agree that people aren't born being good at socialising, but I think people definitely are born and influenced in early development towards having a disposition that means they are more likely than others to develop the required skills.

Completely agree. Very few people are hideous. With the right styling and effort anyone can look at least decent.

I get so fed up of "uhhhhhhh I'm so ugly" and then "there's no point making an effort because I'm ugly" yes there is you idiot

you mirin' the johnson?

Am I weird for actually liking skinny - oops, sorry, "puny weakling" - guys then?

(1) Obviously, the more women you hit on (to the extent of travelling the entire world and going from country to country like one of them did, sad as it seems) the more you'll be successful with

(2) Being more confident helps too, but like I said that is basic social skills. You do not need a PUA book to make you confident, true confidence comes from how much you actually are worth

(3)Most importantly - I doubt it's anywhere near what they claim. It probably has as much truth as those best-selling weight loss books that claim to "help you lose 100 pounds in 10 days" with a Photoshopped image on the front. No evidence and proof it works, say what?