Is there a brain drain in medicine?

According to the FT up to a third of F2s disappear from the system, presumably many of them move abroad. For Australia/NZ there is no additional exams to take, although there are a few hurdles. For the US you have to take the USMLEs and do a residency in the US. There are also a few visa-related hurdles.

I think those numbers are fairly flawed tbh, and I certainly don't think that all of that third leave the UK/training/medicine permanently, which is what it's been interpreted as. It just means that 1/3 of people finishing F2 don't go directly into specialist training. Quite a few go to Aus/NZ for a year, I don't know many who've permanently emigrated at that stage. Then there are others like me who stay in the UK but go into a non-training post for whatever reason, and enter training a year later. There may be a few international students who go back to their countries of origin having completed the foundation programme, but I don't think it's quite the mass exodus some people have in mind!

According to the FT up to a third of F2s disappear from the system, presumably many of them move abroad. For Australia/NZ there is no additional exams to take, although there are a few hurdles. For the US you have to take the USMLEs and do a residency in the US. There are also a few visa-related hurdles.

Yeah, I can see how that figure can be misinterpreted. Would you, personally, consider moving away permanently from the English/UK medical system for any reasons?

I think those numbers are fairly flawed tbh, and I certainly don't think that all of that third leave the UK/training/medicine permanently, which is what it's been interpreted as. It just means that 1/3 of people finishing F2 don't go directly into specialist training. Quite a few go to Aus/NZ for a year, I don't know many who've permanently emigrated at that stage. Then there are others like me who stay in the UK but go into a non-training post for whatever reason, and enter training a year later. There may be a few international students who go back to their countries of origin having completed the foundation programme, but I don't think it's quite the mass exodus some people have in mind!

The news that in the last 5 (?) years, 2-years worth of EM registrars moved to Australia is equally quite telling.

So your implication would be that the Aussie system favours the EM doctors in terms of pay and benefits?

Or is it just because of a preconception/belief that you get the chance to experience a different culture (with a better climate ) at the same rate of pay/benefits that doctors decide to move there?

I know of one girl who's currently doing a year in NZ before starting proper work here and she says she loves it - I'll be sure to ask her for her reasoning.

I know it's a long way off for me but it's still something I want to consider sooner rather than later.

1. I am not sure if this is true, but I have been told (hearsay) that EM doctors essentially have a protected 43h work week in Aus.
2. The pay is better and over-time is paid per hour (no banding).

1. I am not sure if this is true, but I have been told (hearsay) that EM doctors essentially have a protected 43h work week in Aus.
2. The pay is better and over-time is paid per hour (no banding).

Hi guys,

So I was speaking with a fellow applicant who also has offers under his belt earlier on. He has a sibling who is currently studying at a London medical school and he was under a clear impression, from his sister's experience whilst doing clinical training, that many doctors who were qualifying there intended to move abroad after receiving training here.

I was wondering if that's a general trend which is increasing/fluctuating within the UK - are well-trained doctors moving to places like the US where pay can be more rewarding, taxes are less and private healthcare ensures that they will always be able to continue doing the job they love with flexible times and rates?

It's strange to me because I didn't think it was that common for UK graduates to move away because of the pretty decent job security and benefits the NHS brings us. Also, how much further training do you need when you go to places such as the States? I wouldn't discount moving abroad if (provided I actually get the grades this year) it gives me better prospects and/or better chances to develop my skills.

Perhaps my friend was exaggerating about the numbers who intend to move away, or perhaps those same people decide against it once they hit FY1.

The USMLE is supposed to be harder than finals or on par with finals depending on what medical school you go to. You have to do a written paper (step 1) then do some clinical exam over there (step 2) to get board certified.

This is less than accurate. In fact almost every single thing you've said here is inaccurate.

Step 1 is a medical science paper, usually taken after year 2 of 4 in the USA. It tests pre-clinical knowledge. Step 2 has two components, a written part and a practical part and is usually taken during the final year of medical school in the USA. Then there's step 3, which is sat once graduated and practicing as a resident.

Board certification isn't something you get from the USMLE. It is pertinent further down the career line.

Oh sorry, again Im just going on what others have said. Just ignore me!

But from what ive read and heard you do need to pass the USMLE and it does help with getting matched to a residency program. Ive read that prestige of your school does help too. Sorry for not being accurate. I do thing I have the general idea right.

I was talking about the specific passage I quoted (USMLE-related). The rest might be accurate, I wouldn't really know.