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I'm Muslim but I've realised I'm definitely bisexual...

I believe this life is a test. God created us for one purpose which is to worship him and any struggles you face in this life is a test of faith. If you do maintain your faith then you will be granted paradise. I assume by your question you dont believe in any religion.

Don't you think god is selfish and big-headed if the only reason he created humans was to worship him?

Reply 301

lulu199

9

That is a difficult situation for you as a muslim and from conservative family, but some scientific views proved that homo and bisexuality are natural and sometimes you can't do something to change that .. so thank God that you are in UK and not in one of Islamic countries ..

I am muslim, but i really do not think the God would punish you for something he created in you .. some islamic views do not consider homo and bi are sins .. in Quran there is no punishment for these practices

Reply 302

sebastiane2014

3

I just wanted/needed someone to talk to about my issues thats all -- all replies -- well most of them-- have been helpful as just speaking about it helps...

at least i know i am not the only person out there who is Muslim and having these issues!

I have thought that maybe i have an overactive sex drive and so maybe if i have lots of casual heterosexual sex i will not have the urge to have homosexual activity as it seems to be stronger when i am in a period of abstinence from sex. i should get married but can't till i am in a stable job and too young yet...

Maybe I can get a temporary marriage but I am not Shia!
So the 'best' choice seems to be to engage in casual sex so that i can keep my sex drive in control...

what a choice! oh well thanks anyway. i will let u guys and gals know how it goes...

Reply 303

Wahid-r

11

Original post by Zamestaneh

He wasnt necissarily born bisexual; although he may have been born with the predisposition to be more responsive to the environment around him (like a society which doesn't discourage non heterosexuality) which eventually caused him to turn into a bisexual.

Regardless, our debate or discussion is pointless since the OP never said what he intended to get out of this thread - he can either choose to accept that acting upon his bisexuality is a sin and seek to take our advice on board, or he can accept it's a sin and leave Islam.

Very silly. There are strands of Islam that accept you can be both gay and Muslim.

http://www.imaan.org.uk/

Reply 304

Zargabaath

21

Original post by sebastiane2014

I just wanted/needed someone to talk to about my issues thats all -- all replies -- well most of them-- have been helpful as just speaking about it helps...

at least i know i am not the only person out there who is Muslim and having these issues!

I have thought that maybe i have an overactive sex drive and so maybe if i have lots of casual heterosexual sex i will not have the urge to have homosexual activity as it seems to be stronger when i am in a period of abstinence from sex. i should get married but can't till i am in a stable job and too young yet...

Maybe I can get a temporary marriage but I am not Shia!
So the 'best' choice seems to be to engage in casual sex so that i can keep my sex drive in control...

what a choice! oh well thanks anyway. i will let u guys and gals know how it goes...

Dude seriously, just do what makes you happy. There's nothing wrong with you. You live once, for around 80 years. Do you really want to spend that time suppressing who you are? It's not a nice life to live.

The people who are worth keeping in your life will except you for who you are and if you god really is as good and just as the posters in this thread claim he is, he'll accept you as well.

Good luck with whatever you choose! :smile:

Original post by Zamestaneh

The context isn't in the Quran; it's in Hadith, the biographies, naratives, documented history etc.

Ok, that provides some (unconvincing) explanation for the killing (which you still didn't post sources for so there's currently no way to verify if you're correct), but still doesn't do much in justifying torture, forced conversions or the treatment of women as "domestic animals". Nor does it excuse the original topic of condemning a person to hell because of their sexual preferences

Original post by lydiafoof

Don't you think god is selfish and big-headed if the only reason he created humans was to worship him?

I can't +1 anymore posts today :frown:

Reply 305

Zamestaneh

21

Original post by Wahid-r

Very silly. There are strands of Islam that accept you can be both gay and Muslim.

http://www.imaan.org.uk/

In hindsight, I was rather brash, because usually I do say one can be gay and Muslim and one shouldn't let their sin take them away from Islam, but at that moment I was a bit annoyed because this thread is stupid - what does the OP even want out of this thread? He knows Muslims will say X and non-Muslims will say Y, so what's the point? I ought to edit that part of the post...

Reply 306

Zamestaneh

21

Original post by Zargabaath

Dude seriously, just do what makes you happy. There's nothing wrong with you. You live once, for around 80 years. Do you really want to spend that time suppressing who you are? It's not a nice life to live.

The people who are worth keeping in your life will except you for who you are and if you god really is as good and just as the posters in this thread claim he is, he'll accept you as well.

Good luck with whatever you choose! :smile:

Ok, that provides some (unconvincing) explanation for the killing (which you still didn't post sources for so there's currently no way to verify if you're correct), but still doesn't do much in justifying torture, forced conversions or the treatment of women as "domestic animals". Nor does it excuse the original topic of condemning a person to hell because of their sexual preferences

I can't +1 anymore posts today :frown:

I didn't post sources because, as I said, I'm at work. But seriously, we've responded in hundreds of threads over the years cover people's lack of understanding of these verses - use search on TSR and you'll find tonnes of threads covering these verses. I'm sure even honest ex-Muslims could tell you that the Quran has a context. Frankly it's laborious even having to verify this since it's what most Muslims know.

Forced conversion doesn't exist (you linked an irrelevant verse because you ignored the context).

Wait, which bit was torture?

Sexual preferences does not definitively condemn one to Hell, it's just a bad sin - God can forgive them If He chooses to or they repent.

I'll look into the woman hadith thing later.

Reply 307

Zargabaath

21

Original post by Zamestaneh

I didn't post sources because, as I said, I'm at work. But seriously, we've responded in hundreds of threads over the years cover people's lack of understanding of these verses - use search on TSR and you'll find tonnes of threads covering these verses. I'm sure even honest ex-Muslims could tell you that the Quran has a context. Frankly it's laborious even having to verify this since it's what most Muslims know.

Forced conversion doesn't exist (you linked an irrelevant verse because you ignored the context).

Wait, which bit was torture?

Sexual preferences does not definitively condemn one to Hell, it's just a bad sin - God can forgive them If He chooses to or they repent.

I'll look into the woman hadith thing later.

There's no rush m8, post it whenever you're free. It's strange how a supposedly divine book, written by a divine prophet, who was inspired by the creator of the universe would be so vague on such a brutal aspect of life, leaving it open for human interpretation. Especially when said being created humans in the first place and would know full well how we would interpret things.

Qur'an (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides..."
I'm struggling to see how any historical context could justify this torture, simply for not abandoning their traditional faith for a brand new ideology for which the Muslims had zero evidence for.

Also the fact homosexuality is even considered a sin that requires repentance like it's some crime a person has committed shows how bigoted this creator is.

Qur'an (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..."

Regardless of context, how can "fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..." be taken anyway other then forced conversion. They literally said kill them unless the repent and join Islam. To say it doesn't exist is just ludicrous.

Not that I need to, but here is an interesting article on forced conversion (with sources)
http://www.answering-islam.org/Terrorism/by_the_sword.html

And then there's the price of apostasy which I'm sure you're aware of as well. That doesn't seem particularly just either tbf

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 308

chocolate hottie

1

Original post by Phoebe Buffay

This thread really is shocking. The majority of people citing a rather unpleasant book written 1400 years ago? And then talking about hell. You people are mad.

This really is the most sensible post on this whole thread, since the first.

It really is utterly shocking that these primitive, homophobic views are coming out of the woodwork.

The fact that a modern young Briton can seriously believe that he will burn in hell for the eternity for expressing his sexuality is so sad.

What a wonderful god these people believe in. Not.

Reply 309

Moh.1Ace

1

Original post by em211997

So your saying being gay is a choice?

Posted from TSR Mobile

yes.

Reply 310

Zamestaneh

21

Original post by Zargabaath

Qur'an (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides..."
I'm struggling to see how any historical context could justify this torture, simply for not abandoning their traditional faith for a brand new ideology for which the Muslims had zero evidence for.

"FOR THOSE WHO WAGE WAR". This verse refers to those who declared on war on the Muslims for the sake of being Muslim, and also spread rebellion and disorder through brigandry and murder - this punishment was for those who were caught so that they could be left out as an example and stop others from doing that through fear and shock. Perhaps you don't agree with capital punishment, but I guess that's irrelivant.

Also the fact homosexuality is even considered a sin that requires repentance like it's some crime a person has committed shows how bigoted this creator is.

Homosexual Acts*; Homosexuality in itself isn't sinful.

Qur'an (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..."

Regardless of context, how can "fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..." be taken anyway other then forced conversion. They literally said kill them unless the repent and join Islam. To say it doesn't exist is just ludicrous.

A tribe declares war on you for your faith and then dyring the war obviously you kill your enemy; if they become Muslim, they won't be fighting you for your faith anymore, will they. Therefore it does not exist in the Quran; just because you or some others don't understand things, don't make wild claims.

but here is an interesting article on forced conversion (with sources)
http://www.answering-islam.org/Terrorism/by_the_sword.html

Didn't see anything to do with forced conversions that was verifiable.

And there's the price of apostasy which I'm sure you're aware of as well. That doesn't seem particularly just either tbf

Apostates who spread rebellion or try to spread disbelief amongst Muslims in an Islamic state could possibly be executed unless a Muslim intercedes for them...

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 311

nmanvi

14

Original post by Zamestaneh

"FOR THOSE WHO WAGE WAR". This verse refers to those who declared on war on the Muslims for the sake of being Muslim, and also spread rebellion and disorder through brigandry and murder - this punishment was for those who were caught so that they could be left out as an example and stop others from doing that through fear and shock. Perhaps you don't agree with capital punishment, but I guess that's irrelivant.

Homosexual Acts*; Homosexuality in itself isn't sinful.

A tribe declares war on you for your faith and then dyring the war obviously you kill your enemy; if they become Muslim, they won't be fighting you for your faith anymore, will they. Therefore it does not exist in the Quran; just because you or some others don't understand things, don't make wild claims.

Didn't see anything to do with forced conversions that was verifiable.

Apostates who spread rebellion or try to spread disbelief amongst Muslims in an Islamic state could possibly be executed unless a Muslim intercedes for them...

Omgod this book can be twisted to make you believe what ever you want huh...

So lets sayyyy the muslims caught people (possibly children and woman) who didnt want to fight anymore but didnt want to convert to islam. You are saying its ok to kill them to set an example to others?

And i think your last part is misleading to make such a horrid situation seem ok. surely you can be executed for simply leaving islam in an islamic state. You dont have to rebel or spread disbelief but you will get killed for leaving islam?
Justify that please

Reply 312

Zamestaneh

21

Original post by nmanvi

Omgod this book can be twisted to make you believe what ever you want huh...

So lets sayyyy the muslims caught people (possibly children and woman) who didnt want to fight anymore but didnt want to convert to islam. You are saying its ok to kill them to set an example to others?

And i think your last part is misleading to make such a horrid situation seem ok. surely you can be executed for simply leaving islam in an islamic state. You dont have to rebel or spread disbelief but you will get killed for leaving islam?
Justify that please

I think non Muslims twist Islam more than Muslims do tbh - we don't twist it to make make it sound better, we teach the more correct understanding of Islam so that non Muslims don't continue to ignorantly believe their warped interpretations.

They can't kill them because they are innocents and non-combatants, nor will they force them to convert.

Some scholars in the past have held the interpretation that making yourapostasy known was 'spreading disbelief', so they had 3 days to repent or be executed; others have held the interpretation that it's only those who actively spread disbelief and rebellion in an Islamic state (like vocally calling to others to leave Islam too and rebel against the state) who should be executed. I hold the latter interpretation.

Reply 313

lydiafoof

7

Original post by Zargabaath

I can't +1 anymore posts today :frown:

Can you please answer my question I am genuinely curious

Reply 314

lydiafoof

7

Original post by Moh.1Ace

yes.

Being gay is not a choice. Why would anybody choose to be bullied, abandoned by their families and made fun of?

Reply 315

em211997

18

Original post by Moh.1Ace

yes.

If you think being gay is a choice you're basically saying that if you wanted to you could make yourself gay. So why haven't you tested out the theory?

Reply 316

Zamestaneh

21

Original post by Moh.1Ace

yes.

It isn't bro - nature-nurture factors give rise to Homosexuality

Reply 317

galaxica

12

Original post by Moh.1Ace

yes.

Try to control the pathological lying.

Reply 318

Anonymous #17

Everyone has temptations, for the people who are unmarried have desires but they resist them. For those who do not know Islam are giving advice from a non-muslim standpoint, but there is no discrepancy in islam over the the fact that you are not allowed to have intimate relations with anyone you are not married to. The story of Lutt AS should help you (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWFLF-CY-Eg). This is a warped version of attraction, like pedophilia. Things have happened in your life that have resulted in this warped desire and whilst it is not wrong to have these feelings it is certainly wrong to act upon them. Repent sincerely for what you have done and try to resist going to certain opinions just bcs they ease your guilt. Ask for help and inshaAllah you will get it, good luck brother.

Reply 319

Zamestaneh

21

Original post by em211997

But he could have prevented them if they were to cause great harm? Can't Allah do all things? If intervention would've prevented harm then why won't he step in if needs be? It all seems a bit trivial to let such things slide by all for the sake of justice. I'm not referring to homosexuality I'm talking in general terms.

Your assumption is that this world is meant to be the main place where we live and enjoy ourselves and feel peace and experience everything, thus you suggest God should intervene all the time and make the world perfect and remove everything that's bad, but this world is just a temporary place, and the main aim is to prepare for the afterlife. Whatever injustices occur in this world will be taken into account by God, both for the victim and the wrong-doer.

I'm Muslim but I've realised I'm definitely bisexual...

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