Bexit supporters would you support cancelling Brexit?
Obviously I'm going to get flamed for this but I have reasons First of all I am a remain voter and I accept that my side lost. (but I'd still vote remain in a second referendum). But the government have done such a bad job and messed up som much I think we should cancel brexit If we must leave. Here's why:
The referendum was run 3 years ago with all these promises of more money for the NHS control over our own laws and boarders and all that. As it turns out we didn't have plan so Now we get to the point where my is flogging her dead deal that the house won't pass she needs the DUP to get the plan through the house and they won't back it because it detrimental to them.
If we cancel Brexit we can actually make a plan that can make it through the house (because May's current plan won't). Then put it to the EU and actually have a good deal the of course we all want.
The referendum was run 3 years ago with all these promises of more money for the NHS control over our own laws and boarders and all that. As it turns out we didn't have plan so Now we get to the point where my is flogging her dead deal that the house won't pass she needs the DUP to get the plan through the house and they won't back it because it detrimental to them.
If we cancel Brexit we can actually make a plan that can make it through the house (because May's current plan won't). Then put it to the EU and actually have a good deal the of course we all want.
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Imagine the vote has gone the other way and remain had won by 2 or 3%.
Now imagine that practically every eliteist, the majority of the media and over three-quarters of all politicians where rabbid brexiteers and we're prevaricating, demanding the results be ignored and we destroy the democratic vote.
Now imagine they got their second vote and by a cat's whisker this time they won and we were made to leave the eu.
What would your opinion be of the state of democracy in this country?
Would you ever bother to vote again in any election?
I voted remain by the way.
Now imagine that practically every eliteist, the majority of the media and over three-quarters of all politicians where rabbid brexiteers and we're prevaricating, demanding the results be ignored and we destroy the democratic vote.
Now imagine they got their second vote and by a cat's whisker this time they won and we were made to leave the eu.
What would your opinion be of the state of democracy in this country?
Would you ever bother to vote again in any election?
I voted remain by the way.
I'm a brexit supporter in principle, but a remain voter out of practicality/self-interest. Yes I would support it being cancelled currently, as unless there is a change of leadership, this will keep being a disaster. I would give it one election, and if its not one by a passionate propper brexiteer, who is willing and able to inspire people to follow their vision for brexit, despite the risks.. then just call it a day, because its never going to be a success with a remainer leading the charge.
Original post by Just my opinion
Imagine the vote has gone the other way and remain had won by 2 or 3%.
Now imagine that practically every eliteist, the majority of the media and over three-quarters of all politicians where rabbid brexiteers and we're prevaricating, demanding the results be ignored and we destroy the democratic vote.
Now imagine they got their second vote and by a cat's whisker this time they won and we were made to leave the eu.
What would your opinion be of the state of democracy in this country?
Would you ever bother to vote again in any election?
I voted remain by the way.
Now imagine that practically every eliteist, the majority of the media and over three-quarters of all politicians where rabbid brexiteers and we're prevaricating, demanding the results be ignored and we destroy the democratic vote.
Now imagine they got their second vote and by a cat's whisker this time they won and we were made to leave the eu.
What would your opinion be of the state of democracy in this country?
Would you ever bother to vote again in any election?
I voted remain by the way.
The 2016 referendum was fraught with illegal activity and the result is essentially a fraud. If a GE had been found to have had such blatant corruption the result would've been overturned months ago, but since the referendum was advisory there's no specific action for the courts to take, and the politicians have conveniently chosen to completely ignore the fact that UK electoral law was repeatedly broken during the referendum campaign.
The democratic vote has already been destroyed, now we're just seeing the fallout.
Original post by Just my opinion
Imagine the vote has gone the other way and remain had won by 2 or 3%.
Now imagine that practically every eliteist, the majority of the media and over three-quarters of all politicians where rabbid brexiteers and we're prevaricating, demanding the results be ignored and we destroy the democratic vote.
Now imagine they got their second vote and by a cat's whisker this time they won and we were made to leave the eu.
What would your opinion be of the state of democracy in this country?
Would you ever bother to vote again in any election?
I voted remain by the way.
Now imagine that practically every eliteist, the majority of the media and over three-quarters of all politicians where rabbid brexiteers and we're prevaricating, demanding the results be ignored and we destroy the democratic vote.
Now imagine they got their second vote and by a cat's whisker this time they won and we were made to leave the eu.
What would your opinion be of the state of democracy in this country?
Would you ever bother to vote again in any election?
I voted remain by the way.
"Practically every elitist, the majority of the media and over three-quarters of all politicians..." - *******s.
Of the papers that do take a position on Brexit, those supporting Leave are in circulation far more than those that support Remain (by just over 1 million more prints). Of those which support remain, not all of them (if any) take the hard line stance that we should totally ignore the referendum vote. Most of them support a People's Vote.
MPs by majority voted against EFTA membership, the closest thing we'd have to being a member of the EU without revoking Article 50. Hell, they even voted down an amendment to revoke article 50 by a majority of 109 votes. Clearly MPs aren't stupidly eager to reverse/ignore the result of the referendum. If they were we wouldn't have had this subject dominate politics for the last three years.
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by jonathanemptage
If we cancel Brexit we can actually make a plan that can make it through the house (because May's current plan won't). Then put it to the EU and actually have a good deal the of course we all want.
That is effectively what they have already done (by extending article 50, twice), and lo and behold they have not yet come up with another plan, and we all know they aren't going to come up with one by the deadline, and even if by some miracle they do cobble something more palatable together the EU will reject it anyway as they have made patently clear, it's May's deal or less (customs union/single market vassalage), or nothing. Only two viable options remain, we leave with no deal and do our own thing under WTO rules, maybe try to strike a better deal at a later date, or we stay in the EU. I vote for the former.
Original post by Dez
The 2016 referendum was fraught with illegal activity and the result is essentially a fraud. If a GE had been found to have had such blatant corruption the result would've been overturned months ago, but since the referendum was advisory there's no specific action for the courts to take, and the politicians have conveniently chosen to completely ignore the fact that UK electoral law was repeatedly broken during the referendum campaign.
The democratic vote has already been destroyed, now we're just seeing the fallout.
The democratic vote has already been destroyed, now we're just seeing the fallout.
Rubbish, the leave campaign may have overspent however maybe you may wish to look at how many other elections in the country have over spent with zero come back! While you are at it you might wish to enlighten us on your veiw of the UK governments leading postal voting instructions, the one it was chastised on for breaking electoral rules or does you're bigoted blindfold block out what's in you're favour!
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by jonathanemptage
Obviously I'm going to get flamed for this but I have reasons First of all I am a remain voter and I accept that my side lost. (but I'd still vote remain in a second referendum). But the government have done such a bad job and messed up som much I think we should cancel brexit If we must leave. Here's why:
The referendum was run 3 years ago with all these promises of more money for the NHS control over our own laws and boarders and all that. As it turns out we didn't have plan so Now we get to the point where my is flogging her dead deal that the house won't pass she needs the DUP to get the plan through the house and they won't back it because it detrimental to them.
If we cancel Brexit we can actually make a plan that can make it through the house (because May's current plan won't). Then put it to the EU and actually have a good deal the of course we all want.
The referendum was run 3 years ago with all these promises of more money for the NHS control over our own laws and boarders and all that. As it turns out we didn't have plan so Now we get to the point where my is flogging her dead deal that the house won't pass she needs the DUP to get the plan through the house and they won't back it because it detrimental to them.
If we cancel Brexit we can actually make a plan that can make it through the house (because May's current plan won't). Then put it to the EU and actually have a good deal the of course we all want.
No brexit cannot be cancelled, it needs delivering so we can move on to real important issues.
The reason why May is being criticised so much, is because the 50% of the country who voted remain are angry with her and will find any fault in her in order to try and implement the possibility of getting the country to do a second referendum and remain in the EU. Then of the other 50% who voted to leave, half of those people are angry as the deal isn’t exactly how they want it to be, and not everything is done exactly how they like it, and there are always going to be people upset even if you are doing what they want.
This, therefore, leaves a very large majority of the people who are just angry with the whole system of brexit, and who better to bring this anger out on, than May who is already in the spotlight from the other politicians.
Furthermore, I believe that the whole system of brexit and how it has been organised, is completely wrong, as most of the politicians voted to remain in the EU, but the people voted to leave, and since the politicians don’t want to leave, they are all pioneering for themselves and trying to keep closely aligned with the EU as they have their own interests at heart and not the people’s.
The reason why David Cameron stepped down as prime minister, is because he voted to remain in the EU, and therefore he knew that he wouldn’t lead the UK out of the EU to the best of his ability, as deep inside he really wanted to stay in the EU and so he knew that he would follow his own interests rather than the people’s.
This, therefore, leaves a very large majority of the people who are just angry with the whole system of brexit, and who better to bring this anger out on, than May who is already in the spotlight from the other politicians.
Furthermore, I believe that the whole system of brexit and how it has been organised, is completely wrong, as most of the politicians voted to remain in the EU, but the people voted to leave, and since the politicians don’t want to leave, they are all pioneering for themselves and trying to keep closely aligned with the EU as they have their own interests at heart and not the people’s.
The reason why David Cameron stepped down as prime minister, is because he voted to remain in the EU, and therefore he knew that he wouldn’t lead the UK out of the EU to the best of his ability, as deep inside he really wanted to stay in the EU and so he knew that he would follow his own interests rather than the people’s.
Original post by Atara 123
The reason why David Cameron stepped down as prime minister, is because he voted to remain in the EU, and therefore he knew that he wouldn’t lead the UK out of the EU to the best of his ability, as deep inside he really wanted to stay in the EU and so he knew that he would follow his own interests rather than the people’s.
Well, if he can't help follow his own interests rather than the people's... what the hell was he doing as PM? Bit of a philosophical conundrum.
Original post by z-hog
Well, if he can't help follow his own interests rather than the people's... what the hell was he doing as PM? Bit of a philosophical conundrum.
And this is exactly why I don’t think anybody who voted for remain (nearly all the MPs) should be leading us out in brexit as they obviously don’t believe in it so they might try and do what the people want, but they will always end up trying to do what they think is best even if the people don’t agree, and that is why so many people hate theresa May, as she is doing what the people want- taking us out of EU, while all labour are trying to do is keep up still in and as closely aligned as possible to the EU which the clearly voted they don’t want
Hell no, why people want to live under authoritarianism is mind boggling, must have had authoritative fathers.
Original post by jonathanemptage
Obviously I'm going to get flamed for this but I have reasons First of all I am a remain voter and I accept that my side lost. (but I'd still vote remain in a second referendum). But the government have done such a bad job and messed up som much I think we should cancel brexit If we must leave. Here's why:
The referendum was run 3 years ago with all these promises of more money for the NHS control over our own laws and boarders and all that. As it turns out we didn't have plan so Now we get to the point where my is flogging her dead deal that the house won't pass she needs the DUP to get the plan through the house and they won't back it because it detrimental to them.
If we cancel Brexit we can actually make a plan that can make it through the house (because May's current plan won't). Then put it to the EU and actually have a good deal the of course we all want.
The referendum was run 3 years ago with all these promises of more money for the NHS control over our own laws and boarders and all that. As it turns out we didn't have plan so Now we get to the point where my is flogging her dead deal that the house won't pass she needs the DUP to get the plan through the house and they won't back it because it detrimental to them.
If we cancel Brexit we can actually make a plan that can make it through the house (because May's current plan won't). Then put it to the EU and actually have a good deal the of course we all want.
The length of time is immaterial - article 50 was always a 2 year process that had the possibility of extensions to it and it wasn’t triggered right away. So that isn’t the voters fault.
It’s also not the voters fault that May agreed to an order of talks where we give them everything they want then they will talk about what we want aka the trade deal.
A new leader can sort all of this out.
They can approach the Eu to start negotiations all over again and if they refuse simply do no deal and start talking about bespoke individual deals for now to keep things running. It doesn’t have to pass Parliament only a deal does, no deal powers lay with the executive.
When May goes it’s all change.
Original post by Burton Bridge
Rubbish, the leave campaign may have overspent however maybe you may wish to look at how many other elections in the country have over spent with zero come back!
Ah, the classic whataboutery argument. We should ignore this one instance of democratic corruption because there are other instances of corruption that also get ignored. I don't disagree with you that there have been other dodgy doings in our farce of a democracy, but that still doesn't make Brexit any more legitimate.
Original post by Burton Bridge
While you are at it you might wish to enlighten us on your veiw of the UK governments leading postal voting instructions, the one it was chastised on for breaking electoral rules or does you're bigoted blindfold block out what's in you're favour!
Even more reason why the result should be considered void and a re-run demanded.
Original post by Dez
Ah, the classic whataboutery argument. We should ignore this one instance of democratic corruption because there are other instances of corruption that also get ignored. I don't disagree with you that there have been other dodgy doings in our farce of a democracy, but that still doesn't make Brexit any more legitimate.
Even more reason why the result should be considered void and a re-run demanded.
Even more reason why the result should be considered void and a re-run demanded.
Did you kick up such a fuss about momentum and their overspending at the last GE? I'm guessing not.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47468571
Original post by ColinDent
Did you kick up such a fuss about momentum and their overspending at the last GE? I'm guessing not.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47468571
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47468571
More whataboutery. Christ almighty can we stay on topic? Yes, Labour are just as frigging corrupt as the rest of them. I don't vote Labour.
Ireland and Switzerland hold referendums all the time, and don't have the kind of issues we do.
France has held referendums on EU questions, had a "no" vote and then the government, with no second referendum, just decided to ignore the outcome and go in the opposite direction.
It's possible, it's feasible, and I don't think these countries are any less democratic than the UK.
But then again, a democracy is merely the dictatorship of the majority, and I'd be happier with an anarchy so
France has held referendums on EU questions, had a "no" vote and then the government, with no second referendum, just decided to ignore the outcome and go in the opposite direction.
It's possible, it's feasible, and I don't think these countries are any less democratic than the UK.
But then again, a democracy is merely the dictatorship of the majority, and I'd be happier with an anarchy so
It's funny that people go on about democracy on two counts. Firstly, a second referendum doesn't destroy democracy. Democracy isn't settled by one vote, and it doesn't occur on one day. If there is a second referendum and people vote to remain, that is the new democratic will of the people. It's the same as having a general election every 5 years (or often sooner than 5 years). The argument that a second referendum is anti-democratic is nonsense upon stilts.
Secondly, the EU is more democratic than the UK (I feel I can prove this assertion using facts). It's funny that one of the reasons people wanted to leave the EU was because it was anti-democratic and now the same people are saying that our own country is anti-democratic. I personally would argue that since the EU is more democratic than the UK, and if people are so concerned with democracy, surely we should stay in a system that is more democratic than our own, in the hope of it influencing our seemingly flawed democracy.
N.b. I don't believe our democracy is flawed because politicians are failing to deliver Brexit, or because there is a small potential of a second referendum occurring. I think the flaws in our democracy relate to proportionality and how laws are made.
Secondly, the EU is more democratic than the UK (I feel I can prove this assertion using facts). It's funny that one of the reasons people wanted to leave the EU was because it was anti-democratic and now the same people are saying that our own country is anti-democratic. I personally would argue that since the EU is more democratic than the UK, and if people are so concerned with democracy, surely we should stay in a system that is more democratic than our own, in the hope of it influencing our seemingly flawed democracy.
N.b. I don't believe our democracy is flawed because politicians are failing to deliver Brexit, or because there is a small potential of a second referendum occurring. I think the flaws in our democracy relate to proportionality and how laws are made.
Cameron should have never held that blasted referendum, pandering to the loony right of his party.
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