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    (Original post by conor.b92)
    but isnt that whats wrong with the whole thing i mean a bin man earns more than a soldier now im not knocking that job but surely risking your life is worth more pay than emptying bins ?
    i think its down to supply and demand. if there was a greater demand for soliders but not enough people who wanted the job then the pay would rise. i personally think pay should be linked to how well a person carrys out their job, not what particular job they have
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    Not only do they start on 20/21k ish, which is a lot higher than some graduates, they have very little debt. Nurses can earn a very respectable crust (in fact all the nursing grads i know of are a lot better off than everyone else), but eventually their earnings will hit a ceiling that only a select few can break through.
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    (Original post by WEB)
    i think its down to supply and demand. if there was a greater demand for soliders but not enough people who wanted the job then the pay would rise. i personally think pay should be linked to how well a person carrys out their job, not what particular job they have
    agree.

    however you point before was unnessesary; the whole thing about nurses letting patient dehydrate was because of lack of nurse. they could not do their job properly because their work load was too big. the NHSs fault not the nurses.
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    (Original post by ballerinabetty)
    agree.

    however you point before was unnessesary; the whole thing about nurses letting patient dehydrate was because of lack of nurse. they could not do their job properly because their work load was too big. the NHSs fault not the nurses.
    i dont think it was unecessary i was making a point - i think the blurring of professional roles and responsibilities will reduce the level of care a patient recieves. the government are only promoting nurses prescribing and other expansions to save money as it costs less to train them than a doctor...however, they will not be able to carry out a doctor's traditional duties to the same level as they are not qualified to do so - its medical care on the cheap.
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    Fact is that this country is £1.1 trillion in national debt and every public service is getting funding slashed for a long time to come yet. Whether nurses deserve more money is irrelevent because there is no money for any public sector salary inceases. So to answer the OP;s question:

    In a very, very long time.
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    my mum was a nurse and now a midwife and she works really hard but doesn't get paid that much. They deserve more!
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    Im happy with the starting wage, I'll graduate on around £22k which is more than the average graduate will recieve, plus as i'll hold a degree this will allow me to progress quicker. Although what I do disagree with is the pay of specialist nurses, band 6's, many nurses are not being paid for the skills they do, one may hold the ability to do venepuncture, male catheterisation, prescribing etc and be on the same point as another managerial band 6, i think there should be a fianancial incentive for these skills. Plus it's not necessarily true that its cheaper to train nurses to be nurse consultants/practitioners. It's the similar role to the f1, which is 5/6 years in med school..the nurse consultant would have had 3year degree also, plus a 1/2 year masters (which are often funded by the NHS) plus the part time phd or Dphil they'd need to hold, which is 2-3 years, again mostly funded by the trust, it takes around 7 years of training within nursing, to get to that level. It's rather insulting when a new doctor complains that the asisstant practitioner or nurse specialist on the ward is paid a point higher than he is, when they've been a qualified nurse for 10 years, and gone through a masters and still studying for their Phd at the same time, specialists nurses do need to be paid more, and the band 6, 7, 8 roles are very scarce and underpaid in terms of what they do. However, the band 5 nurse- it can take a long time to progress without a degree and i think there should be more training opportunities or educational opportunities made available to those who're sort of 'trailing along' so to speak. A band 5 nurse on my last placement qualified in the late 70's, and just got her degree and is now doing her masters to become an orthopaedic nurse consultant, trained via the trust- which is great, but more opportunites are needed.
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    (Original post by ballerinabetty)
    usually because they enjoy the career and it is a stable one.

    my point was more to do with: highly qualified nurses will do many of the same jobs a doctors will do and are just as knowlegable but they get paid a sooo much less.

    a few examples as to why nurses should be paid closer to a doctors wage:
    - a few months past went to visit my gp. and asked about contraception. the gp said to me "you will be better off seeing the nurse as she know more than i do about it" so i did and every thing was fine.
    - then a week or so ago i made a last minute appointment at my surgery and the receptionist asked me why i needed it. i said i was feeling unwell. i was made an appointment to see a nurse who perscribed me antibiotic after assesing me. two weeks later i was fine. no doctor needed.
    - in the past when i suffered from mental health problems. my doctor, who i saw regularly, said "this is as far as i can help you, i suggest you make an appointment with the nurse and she will be able to help you furture because she knows more about this stuff than i do".

    doctors are great at what they do but i think that nurses are just as good. so why do they not get similar pay considering they are doing similar jobs?
    I agree nurses are a lot more skilled with the physical side of things when I was younger my doctor used to take my blood pressure using a digital monitor while my arm was hanging in the air lol.
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    I do agree that nurses should get a bit more money but I'm not going into nursing thinking about the money to be honest. And you have to remember nurses aren't doctors. Doctors do deserve to get payed a lot more - they still work very long hours and they are the one's making the decisions.

    I recon many people still go into nursing because they offer the bursary while training. I think if they stopped that all together then it might change the amount of people applying.
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    (Original post by Holamigo)
    I do agree that nurses should get a bit more money but I'm not going into nursing thinking about the money to be honest. And you have to remember nurses aren't doctors. Doctors do deserve to get payed a lot more - they still work very long hours and they are the one's making the decisions.

    I recon many people still go into nursing because they offer the bursary while training. I think if they stopped that all together then it might change the amount of people applying.
    yea I don't understand that people have advised me not to go into nursing because Im not sure if Im all that passionate about it yet there are people who go into it because it offers a bursary
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    (Original post by Anonymous,)
    yea I don't understand that people have advised me not to go into nursing because Im not sure if Im all that passionate about it yet there are people who go into it because it offers a bursary

    I think the bursary definitely helps more people go into it. At my occy health appt the woman said that its quite suprising the amount of people who apply then drop out later and I asked why do you think that is and she said many just go in it for the bursary then realise it's not that much and drop out.

    And I think some people who don't really know what they want to do as a career think 'oo i will get a diploma/degree while getting payed then maybe i'll stick to it afterwards!'
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    (Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
    What about the hole of debt that medics dig themselves into to get to the position where they're allowed to work like dogs for the pay of a waiter in the first place?
    which as little as five or six years after graduating is replaced with a specialist's salary ... while few if any GPs walk directly into a partnership the going rate for salaried Doctors with GP registration is not to be sniffed at, even if they can't do sums for toffee ...

    plus of course the fact that doctors in training get time and funding for further study, education and training as a guaranteed part of their contract and it's not 'subject to the needs of the service ' or arbitrarily cancelled ....
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    which as little as five or six years after graduating is replaced with a specialist's salary ...
    Well medic courses are nearly twice as long, and not bursaried. In 5-6 years a band 5 will have progressed at least to band 6 anyway, which iscomparative on the career ladder.
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    (Original post by Wangers)
    Well medic courses are nearly twice as long, and not bursaried. In 5-6 years a band 5 will have progressed at least to band 6 anyway, which iscomparative on the career ladder.

    however this 'progression' to band 6 isn't easy

    for most requires to do a top up course, masters..conferences, clinical skills courses, for the average nurse graduating with a diploma, probably would take 10 years - most of which can be paid for by the trust but a huge amount of nurses self fund, and why do not a lot of medical students get the nhs bursary? Mummy and daddy earn too much, hardly an argument
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    (Original post by Wangers)
    Well medic courses are nearly twice as long, and not bursaried. In 5-6 years a band 5 will have progressed at least to band 6 anyway, which iscomparative on the career ladder.
    there is NO guaranteed progression for Nurses - this suits lay management as Nurses are disposable bums on seats to be played with as they see fit ...

    in ward settings the ratio between band 5 and band 6+7 posts is something like 8 band 5 roles for every one post in navy ...

    A+E, perioperative and critical care may be better ratios but it;s not a case that Nurses and ODPs will progress automatically to a band 6 role, unlike Midwives and many OT/PT/radiogs...

    for someone who qualified after AFC was introduced ,6 years post qualification a Nurse will earn a basic salary of 25 829 GBP and have one increment left if they are in band 5, there is no assured progression beyond that next increment.
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    there is NO guaranteed progression for Nurses - this suits lay management as Nurses are disposable bums on seats to be played with as they see fit ...

    in ward settings the ratio between band 5 and band 6+7 posts is something like 8 band 5 roles for every one post in navy ...

    A+E, perioperative and critical care may be better ratios but it;s not a case that Nurses and ODPs will progress automatically to a band 6 role, unlike Midwives and many OT/PT/radiogs...

    don't midwives automatically progress to band 6 at the end of their first year
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    the following NHS employers documents might make interesting reading

    Doctors and dentists pay scales 2009-10

    http://www.nhsemployers.org/Aboutus/..._09_090409.pdf

    Agenda for Change pay scales 2009-10

    http://www.nhsemployers.org/Aboutus/...0%201_2009.pdf

    F2 doctors are already paid a greater basic salary than the RNs who will be preventing them from killing too many patients
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    (Original post by Subcutaneous)
    don't midwives automatically progress to band 6 at the end of their first year
    2 years and have to pass the competencies , also needs the trust to play fair...
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    2 years and have to pass the competencies , also needs the trust to play fair...

    i've been told it's a year, 6 months - a year..but thats from a friend who's been out of practice for a year or so, but she's dual qualified
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    there is NO guaranteed progression for Nurses - this suits lay management as Nurses are disposable bums on seats to be played with as they see fit ...

    in ward settings the ratio between band 5 and band 6+7 posts is something like 8 band 5 roles for every one post in navy ...

    A+E, perioperative and critical care may be better ratios but it;s not a case that Nurses and ODPs will progress automatically to a band 6 role, unlike Midwives and many OT/PT/radiogs...

    for someone who qualified after AFC was introduced ,6 years post qualification a Nurse will earn a basic salary of 25 829 GBP and have one increment left if they are in band 5, there is no assured progression beyond that next increment.
    But to quote that salery, without adding on additional hours for bank shifts, which many substantive staff do (and which is very lucrative) would not be repersenting the entire situation. Now you and I have had our disagreements in the past, but to put pissing contests aside, as an RN, how do you see your career progressing with such rapid changes in healthcare; do you feel threatened by the advancement of the HCA 3s? No piss take, genuine question.
 
 
 
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