when will nurses ever get the pay they deserve

Im happy with the starting wage, I'll graduate on around £22k which is more than the average graduate will recieve, plus as i'll hold a degree this will allow me to progress quicker. Although what I do disagree with is the pay of specialist nurses, band 6's, many nurses are not being paid for the skills they do, one may hold the ability to do venepuncture, male catheterisation, prescribing etc and be on the same point as another managerial band 6, i think there should be a fianancial incentive for these skills. Plus it's not necessarily true that its cheaper to train nurses to be nurse consultants/practitioners. It's the similar role to the f1, which is 5/6 years in med school..the nurse consultant would have had 3year degree also, plus a 1/2 year masters (which are often funded by the NHS) plus the part time phd or Dphil they'd need to hold, which is 2-3 years, again mostly funded by the trust, it takes around 7 years of training within nursing, to get to that level. It's rather insulting when a new doctor complains that the asisstant practitioner or nurse specialist on the ward is paid a point higher than he is, when they've been a qualified nurse for 10 years, and gone through a masters and still studying for their Phd at the same time, specialists nurses do need to be paid more, and the band 6, 7, 8 roles are very scarce and underpaid in terms of what they do. However, the band 5 nurse- it can take a long time to progress without a degree and i think there should be more training opportunities or educational opportunities made available to those who're sort of 'trailing along' so to speak. A band 5 nurse on my last placement qualified in the late 70's, and just got her degree and is now doing her masters to become an orthopaedic nurse consultant, trained via the trust- which is great, but more opportunites are needed.

Reply 47

Anonymous,

ballerinabetty

usually because they enjoy the career and it is a stable one.

my point was more to do with: highly qualified nurses will do many of the same jobs a doctors will do and are just as knowlegable but they get paid a sooo much less.

a few examples as to why nurses should be paid closer to a doctors wage:
- a few months past went to visit my gp. and asked about contraception. the gp said to me "you will be better off seeing the nurse as she know more than i do about it" so i did and every thing was fine.
- then a week or so ago i made a last minute appointment at my surgery and the receptionist asked me why i needed it. i said i was feeling unwell. i was made an appointment to see a nurse who perscribed me antibiotic after assesing me. two weeks later i was fine. no doctor needed.
- in the past when i suffered from mental health problems. my doctor, who i saw regularly, said "this is as far as i can help you, i suggest you make an appointment with the nurse and she will be able to help you furture because she knows more about this stuff than i do".

doctors are great at what they do but i think that nurses are just as good. so why do they not get similar pay considering they are doing similar jobs?

I agree nurses are a lot more skilled with the physical side of things when I was younger my doctor used to take my blood pressure using a digital monitor while my arm was hanging in the air lol.

Reply 48

Holamigo

I do agree that nurses should get a bit more money but I'm not going into nursing thinking about the money to be honest. And you have to remember nurses aren't doctors. Doctors do deserve to get payed a lot more - they still work very long hours and they are the one's making the decisions.

I recon many people still go into nursing because they offer the bursary while training. I think if they stopped that all together then it might change the amount of people applying.

Reply 49

Anonymous,

Holamigo

I do agree that nurses should get a bit more money but I'm not going into nursing thinking about the money to be honest. And you have to remember nurses aren't doctors. Doctors do deserve to get payed a lot more - they still work very long hours and they are the one's making the decisions.

I recon many people still go into nursing because they offer the bursary while training. I think if they stopped that all together then it might change the amount of people applying.

yea I don't understand that people have advised me not to go into nursing because Im not sure if Im all that passionate about it yet there are people who go into it because it offers a bursary

Reply 50

Holamigo

Anonymous,

yea I don't understand that people have advised me not to go into nursing because Im not sure if Im all that passionate about it yet there are people who go into it because it offers a bursary

I think the bursary definitely helps more people go into it. At my occy health appt the woman said that its quite suprising the amount of people who apply then drop out later and I asked why do you think that is and she said many just go in it for the bursary then realise it's not that much and drop out.

And I think some people who don't really know what they want to do as a career think 'oo i will get a diploma/degree while getting payed then maybe i'll stick to it afterwards!'

Reply 51

GodspeedGehenna

What about the hole of debt that medics dig themselves into to get to the position where they're allowed to work like dogs for the pay of a waiter in the first place?

which as little as five or six years after graduating is replaced with a specialist's salary ... while few if any GPs walk directly into a partnership the going rate for salaried Doctors with GP registration is not to be sniffed at, even if they can't do sums for toffee ...

plus of course the fact that doctors in training get time and funding for further study, education and training as a guaranteed part of their contract and it's not 'subject to the needs of the service ' or arbitrarily cancelled ....

Reply 52

Wangers

zippyRN

which as little as five or six years after graduating is replaced with a specialist's salary ...

Well medic courses are nearly twice as long, and not bursaried. In 5-6 years a band 5 will have progressed at least to band 6 anyway, which iscomparative on the career ladder.

Reply 53

Wangers

Well medic courses are nearly twice as long, and not bursaried. In 5-6 years a band 5 will have progressed at least to band 6 anyway, which iscomparative on the career ladder.

however this 'progression' to band 6 isn't easy

for most requires to do a top up course, masters..conferences, clinical skills courses, for the average nurse graduating with a diploma, probably would take 10 years - most of which can be paid for by the trust but a huge amount of nurses self fund, and why do not a lot of medical students get the nhs bursary? Mummy and daddy earn too much, hardly an argument

Reply 54

Wangers

Well medic courses are nearly twice as long, and not bursaried. In 5-6 years a band 5 will have progressed at least to band 6 anyway, which iscomparative on the career ladder.

there is NO guaranteed progression for Nurses - this suits lay management as Nurses are disposable bums on seats to be played with as they see fit ...

in ward settings the ratio between band 5 and band 6+7 posts is something like 8 band 5 roles for every one post in navy ...

A+E, perioperative and critical care may be better ratios but it;s not a case that Nurses and ODPs will progress automatically to a band 6 role, unlike Midwives and many OT/PT/radiogs...

for someone who qualified after AFC was introduced ,6 years post qualification a Nurse will earn a basic salary of 25 829 GBP and have one increment left if they are in band 5, there is no assured progression beyond that next increment.

Reply 55

zippyRN

there is NO guaranteed progression for Nurses - this suits lay management as Nurses are disposable bums on seats to be played with as they see fit ...

in ward settings the ratio between band 5 and band 6+7 posts is something like 8 band 5 roles for every one post in navy ...

A+E, perioperative and critical care may be better ratios but it;s not a case that Nurses and ODPs will progress automatically to a band 6 role, unlike Midwives and many OT/PT/radiogs...

don't midwives automatically progress to band 6 at the end of their first year

Reply 56

the following NHS employers documents might make interesting reading

Doctors and dentists pay scales 2009-10

http://www.nhsemployers.org/Aboutus/Publications/PayCirculars/Documents/Pay%20Circular_MD_1_09_090409.pdf

Agenda for Change pay scales 2009-10

http://www.nhsemployers.org/Aboutus/Publications/PayCirculars/Documents/pay_circular%20_AfC_%20%201_2009.pdf

F2 doctors are already paid a greater basic salary than the RNs who will be preventing them from killing too many patients

Reply 57

Subcutaneous

don't midwives automatically progress to band 6 at the end of their first year

2 years and have to pass the competencies , also needs the trust to play fair...

Reply 58

zippyRN

2 years and have to pass the competencies , also needs the trust to play fair...

i've been told it's a year, 6 months - a year..but thats from a friend who's been out of practice for a year or so, but she's dual qualified

Reply 59

Wangers