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Private vs Public Universities

Hello,

I would like a bit of opinions on the matter of school choice. I am residing overseas and I am changing careers from education to law. I have applied and have since been accepted to study the LLM or GDL at BPP, UOL and LSBU in 2019. I have never been to the UK and know absolutely nothing about these universities other than what their website and google has provided. I would like opinion on these matters:

1. Which is looked on more favourably, the GDL or the LLM. In my own country these two routes are widely unheard of and my friends who are already lawyers in my home country could not offer much advice in this regard. Since I have been living abroad since I completed my undergraduate I will continue to do so and I would like the opinion of individuals already in UK.

2. I know nothing substantial about UK universities other than the obvious top tier ones. Are the universities I listed considered good enough universities to get a good education. Also, are there any other good universities that also offers the GDL/LLM that I could apply to?

Thank you in advance for taking the time to respond to me.

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It will be Uni of Law or rather thats where my bet is.
Reply 2
Original post by 999tigger
It will be Uni of Law or rather thats where my bet is.


UOL is the University of Law, is this a recommended place of study for the GDL?

Yes, I am planning on working in the UK for a few years. Even though the LLM isn’t needed to practice in the UK is there any real value in doing it over the GDL, is it look on favourably by employers?

I didn’t know that about BPP nor LSBU, thanks for the insight. BPP’s website claims it trains a high percentage of UK lawyers and provides a career guarantee after completing their LPC (I’m interested in the solicitor route).

As it pertains to my profile I’m a working professional making a career change so my focus is on a university’s ability to deliver a good education and good career services. I have a 2:2 undergraduate degree and a MBA I’m also taking introductory law courses online to get myself prepared (these courses won’t allow me to be exempt from any modules, I simply enjoy having multiple certifications). When it comes to choosing between the GDL and LLM I want the one that is preferred ( I don’t know how the UK views these options or even if anyone is better than the other which is why I’m seeking opinions on the matter).

I don’t know LSE, UCL nor KCL or if I’m a viable candidate but I’ll be sure to inquire. If there are any other institutions you’d like to mention I’d surely appreciate it. Even though I have 2:2 and the preferred mark is 2:1 the extra certifications I have may work to my advantage. I have a certification in Project Management, International Business Communication and will be completing law related certificates by December.

I would prefer to live in London because as a foreigner I only really know about London but I’m not restricting my choices to London. I did my MBA through the University of Bradford and I enjoyed but to the best of my knowledge they don’t offer law conversion courses.

Thanks so much for your input, it’s been really helpful.
Reply 3
Sorry, the above was in response to you, I replied to the wrong person.
Reply 4
Original post by J-SP
Doing the GDL as an international student with a 2.2 isn’t a great idea unless it’s going to help you with the qualification route in your home country.

Getting a training contract (despite unis like BPP’s career guarantee, which is a complete farce btw) with a 2.2 and needing a work permit will be exceptionally difficult.


Once you complete the GDL or LLM will a 2:2 in a non-law undergraduate degree really hold that much weight?
@Tass41

It would help if you told us where you're from. Are you from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka? You should find out if there are any unis in UK offering the GDL via online studies. You can then continue working in whichever country you're from/in and then study online.

Once you graduate with the GDL, you should aim to work in an international law firm in your country, that has offices in UK, Europe, or USA. After you complete 2 to 4 years in the local office in your home country there is every chance the international law firm will second you to the UK office or an office in another country before you end up in UK. It has happened to my international friends who're from Brunei and Singapore who completed 2 years in the law firm in their country and were immediately posted out to UK.

Clearly UK is where you want to be and it looks like you want to become a UK citizen eventually. To do a GDL in UK and automatically get a training contract is difficult unless you have connections. That's how it works in UK. There's about 130 to 160 UK institutions and many of them offer law as a degree. So year on year there's so many law graduates but very little jobs.

The good thing is that this is a forum. You will receive many replies. Consider everything, do your research and then decide.
Reply 6
Original post by J-SP
In the U.K., yes. Firms will care much more about your undergrad degree than a GDL or LLM.


That’s definitely something to think about, thanks for the input. Though if I do pursue the GDL I would move on to the LPC and I definitely don’t plan on getting a 2:2. I’m not concerned about getting a visa at this moment so I’m not worried about that aspect my main concern is career opportunities. If I study Law in the UK I do plan on working there for a while before moving on.

The people who hold 2:2 undergraduates who decide to pursue law do they never end up being a lawyer in the UK? This isn’t the case for my home country but I don’t know how things work in the UK.
Original post by Tass41
That’s definitely something to think about, thanks for the input. Though if I do pursue the GDL I would move on to the LPC and I definitely don’t plan on getting a 2:2. I’m not concerned about getting a visa at this moment so I’m not worried about that aspect my main concern is career opportunities. If I study Law in the UK I do plan on working there for a while before moving on.

The people who hold 2:2 undergraduates who decide to pursue law do they never end up being a lawyer in the UK? This isn’t the case for my home country but I don’t know how things work in the UK.

With that academic profile, in the UK you almost certainly wouldn;' be competitive for any of the large firms who have the ability to sponsor visas. It's the kind of profile that might perfectly well get a role in a local town solicitors, doing divorces, conveyancing, traffic cases etc, but they wouldn't be able to sponsor visas. Education as a previous career isn't likely to give you any specific point of leverage into niche legal roles like oil and gas or aviation might.
Reply 8
Original post by Audrey18
@Tass41

It would help if you told us where you're from. Are you from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka? You should find out if there are any unis in UK offering the GDL via online studies. You can then continue working in whichever country you're from/in and then study online.

Once you graduate with the GDL, you should aim to work in an international law firm in your country, that has offices in UK, Europe, or USA. After you complete 2 to 4 years in the local office in your home country there is every chance the international law firm will second you to the UK office or an office in another country before you end up in UK. It has happened to my international friends who're from Brunei and Singapore who completed 2 years in the law firm in their country and were immediately posted out to UK.

Clearly UK is where you want to be and it looks like you want to become a UK citizen eventually. To do a GDL in UK and automatically get a training contract is difficult unless you have connections. That's how it works in UK. There's about 130 to 160 UK institutions and many of them offer law as a degree. So year on year there's so many law graduates but very little jobs.

The good thing is that this is a forum. You will receive many replies. Consider everything, do your research and then decide.


An international firm was my first option but there are only few of those in my home country and even fewer with overseas office. Though neighbouring countries have that option. It’s extremely difficult to transfer from my home country and so much of a hassle that it would be my very last option.

Online courses are not an option I want to take, I simply don’t prefer it and since I can afford to do it on campus that’s the way I’d like to do if I’m given the opportunity.

I currently have no desire to become a UK citizen, I only need 2-3 years as a lawyer in the UK before moving to the next country (I’ve already looked into it).

I don’t know much about the institutions offering these GDL and LLM Programmes which is kind of why I’m posting here to get opinions on different universities and their courses. I’m only familiar with conversion courses in the U.S and I’ve already lived there and I have no desire to return (I don’t hate the U.S though I just don’t want to move back there).

There are also too many law graduates in my home country a well, that’s kind of what deterred me from pursuing a second undergraduate (LLB) right after finishing the first but now I’ve decided to give it a shot and see what happens.

I’m really appreciating everyone’s input, I would like as much information as possible so I can make an informed decision.

Also, one of best friend from France is named Audrey. 😁
Reply 9
Original post by Tass41
An international firm was my first option but there are only few of those in my home country and even fewer with overseas office. Though neighbouring countries have that option. It’s extremely difficult to transfer from my home country and so much of a hassle that it would be my very last option.

Online courses are not an option I want to take, I simply don’t prefer it and since I can afford to do it on campus that’s the way I’d like to do if I’m given the opportunity.

I currently have no desire to become a UK citizen, I only need 2-3 years as a lawyer in the UK before moving to the next country (I’ve already looked into it).

I don’t know much about the institutions offering these GDL and LLM Programmes which is kind of why I’m posting here to get opinions on different universities and their courses. I’m only familiar with conversion courses in the U.S and I’ve already lived there and I have no desire to return (I don’t hate the U.S though I just don’t want to move back there).

There are also too many law graduates in my home country a well, that’s kind of what deterred me from pursuing a second undergraduate (LLB) right after finishing the first but now I’ve decided to give it a shot and see what happens.

I’m really appreciating everyone’s input, I would like as much information as possible so I can make an informed decision.

Also, one of best friend from France is named Audrey. 😁


Also I’m not interested in doing a law in the country that I currently reside. It’s a wonderful country I simply no longer wish to live here. I’m ready to move on.
Original post by threeportdrift
With that academic profile, in the UK you almost certainly wouldn;' be competitive for any of the large firms who have the ability to sponsor visas. It's the kind of profile that might perfectly well get a role in a local town solicitors, doing divorces, conveyancing, traffic cases etc, but they wouldn't be able to sponsor visas. Education as a previous career isn't likely to give you any specific point of leverage into niche legal roles like oil and gas or aviation might.


There are no Home Office difficulties with a small firm sponsoring a Tier 2 visa and indeed there are plenty of small firms offering training contracts to the senior partner’s brother’s cousin’s nephew from back in the old country.

The problem is in persuading a small firm to go to the trouble and cost of a Tier 2 visa for an open recruitment process when they are probably looking for someone to spend 25 years plus with the firm.
Original post by Tass41
Also I’m not interested in doing a law in the country that I currently reside. It’s a wonderful country I simply no longer wish to live here. I’m ready to move on.


That 2ii is seriously problematic for me and, I suspect, you. Coupled with the immigration issues and a firm not being happy to make a bit of a gamble investing in someone who might up sticks and go back to wherever... it doesn't look promising to me.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by J-SP
Even large firms have struggled with visas in the last 12 months where the national quota has been met and therefore the salary benchmark for a tier 2 has increased. It’s no longer as simple as just meeting the RLMT


Neither RMLT nor the quota apply to trainees switching from tier 4 to tier 2. The only constraint is the minimum salary which is in a bit of a mess because the salary requirement for unadmitted staff is much higher than for admitted staff which is higher than for barristers and pupils. I think most trainee solicitors enter as “new entrant” solicitors rather than as new entrant unadmitted staff.
Reply 13
Original post by nulli tertius
There are no Home Office difficulties with a small firm sponsoring a Tier 2 visa and indeed there are plenty of small firms offering training contracts to the senior partner’s brother’s cousin’s nephew from back in the old country.

The problem is in persuading a small firm to go to the trouble and cost of a Tier 2 visa for an open recruitment process when they are probably looking for someone to spend 25 years plus with the firm.


Thank you for mentioning this because I was starting to think it was impossible to get training if I do decide to go ahead with the GDL. I have no problem working with small firms. I can fund my own education so I’m certainly not looking for a firm to pay for any course I just want a few years experience after I’m done studying.

I can’t commit to a country for 25 years let alone a company.
Reply 14
Original post by Reality Check
That 2ii is seriously problematic for me and, I suspect, you. Coupled with the immigration issues and a firm not being happy to make a bit of a gamble investing in someone who might up sticks and go back to wherever... it doesn't look promising to me.


I wouldn’t rule out staying longer than 5 years but I can’t guarantee that I’ll enjoy living in the UK that much to want to stay beyond 5 years. It’s definitely a gamble but it’s also gamble giving anyone a job resident and foreigners alike because they can always leave to work for another company or up an move to another country. Life happens so no employer can guarantee whoever they give a job to will devote their life to that company. It’s always risky employing foreigners but the sheer number of foreigners living and working in the UK says the opportunity is there. An opportunity is all some people need.
Reply 15
Original post by threeportdrift
With that academic profile, in the UK you almost certainly wouldn;' be competitive for any of the large firms who have the ability to sponsor visas. It's the kind of profile that might perfectly well get a role in a local town solicitors, doing divorces, conveyancing, traffic cases etc, but they wouldn't be able to sponsor visas. Education as a previous career isn't likely to give you any specific point of leverage into niche legal roles like oil and gas or aviation might.


It sounds like getting an LLB is more beneficial than attempting the GDL. Thanks for your input, it’s starting to sound like I might need to go back to drawing board with the whole Law conversion route.

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