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Original post by sabahshahed294
Assalamualikum! 
I personally never knew about this. I'm a Sunni but I do have Shia friends and I have utmost respect for them despite the differences. I have also seen photos of Karbala through a friend of mine. It is indeed a beautiful place. If it's okay to ask, how do you all offer prayers (I'm aware that there are differences) but not aware exactly what are they.
I personally never knew about this. I'm a Sunni but I do have Shia friends and I have utmost respect for them despite the differences. I have also seen photos of Karbala through a friend of mine. It is indeed a beautiful place. If it's okay to ask, how do you all offer prayers (I'm aware that there are differences) but not aware exactly what are they.
Walaykum salam warahmatullahi wabarakatu,
It warms my heart to see the tolerance you have dear sister, truly, i wish the entire Ummah was like this. Keep to this attitude, despite what people might do to try to dissuade you and make you sectarian.
There are differences in prayer, arguably one of the main ones is where we place our hands. Shia's and Malikis [traditionally] place their hands by their sides. Shias do this as they follow the fiqh of the ahlulbayt of Muhammed [saw] Imam Jaffer as sadiq a.s, who lived in Medina at the time time period as Imam Malik, one of the great imams of the ahlus-sunnah.
We argue that the people of Medina knew best how to pray and knew best how the Prophet [saw] prayed, as it was in medina the majority of the companions were based and the capital of Islam and the prophetic traditions, which is why Imam Malik and the family of the prophet [saw] who were based in Medina prayed with their arms by their sides.
If you have time, watch this by ahlus-sunnah shaykh, Hamzah Yusuf [a maliki], on this issue:
[video="youtube;X6vobY94XkE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6vobY94XkE[/video]
Original post by Ammmaaaraah
Assalamualaykum Sabah!
How are you? Just wanted to confirm, Oman is an Ibadhi majority community isn't it?
And do you know the differences between the Ibadhis and Shias?
Personally, I find that Oman is a very tolerable place, Sunnis, Shias and Ibadhis all get on so well, its beautiful
I also prayed at the Shia Mosque next to the Muttrah souk, and it wasn't as awkward as I thought it would be!
How are you? Just wanted to confirm, Oman is an Ibadhi majority community isn't it?
And do you know the differences between the Ibadhis and Shias?
Personally, I find that Oman is a very tolerable place, Sunnis, Shias and Ibadhis all get on so well, its beautiful
I also prayed at the Shia Mosque next to the Muttrah souk, and it wasn't as awkward as I thought it would be!
SubhanAllah, by Allah it warms my heart to see this show of unity and tolerance. There are extremists among shias and extremist among sunni's, and extremists among salafi's who will try to cause one group to hate the other by rumours or discussing sensitive issues in the wrong way, or showing what extremists say or do, or quoting ahadith or books etc, but despite this all, no matter the differences, i hope we can all peacefully coexist and respect one another and know how best to discuss differences in a sensitive and mature manner.
I personally disagree with Hazrat Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman and believe they made a mistake, and not a small one, in not ensuring the rightful caliph, Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s, was given his rightful role as the leader after the death of the Prophet [saw] as well as of the rights of the ahlulbayt [asws] However, despite disagreeing with them, i understand how highly they are held among sunni's, and so, no matter what i feel and what i disagree with, i discuss them in a respectful manner owing to how highly the majority of muslims view them, and ultimately refer the matter to Allah azwj. Thus, i believe it best for shias, no matter what they feel about these personalities, to ensure anything they say is not abusive, and to ultimately keep those thoughts to themselves and refer the matter to Allah, without bringing fitnah into the community.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Ammmaaaraah
No, we were just passing by and prayed ourselves. Why? 
I prayed behind Ibadhis in jama'ah though o.o
I prayed behind Ibadhis in jama'ah though o.o
It's not permissible to pray behind a Shia.
Praying behind Ibaadis is not permissible too.
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I have personally prayed behind sunni Imams [as i do not consider them kuffar] and sunni brothers who have led the salah and are not known for indecency [alcoholics and so on]. If someone considers me a kuffar, or the imam at my mosque as a kuffar, and so deems prayer behind them impermissible, then that's fine.
Original post by Leukocyte
It's not permissible to pray behind a Shia.
Praying behind Ibaadis is not permissible too.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Praying behind Ibaadis is not permissible too.
Posted from TSR Mobile
According to your belief, but not all sunni's share this belief.
Original post by Tawheed
I have personally prayed behind sunni Imams [as i do not consider them kuffar] and sunni brothers who have led the salah and are not known for indecency [alcoholics and so on]. If someone considers me a kuffar, or the imam at my mosque as a kuffar, and so deems prayer behind them impermissible, then that's fine.
This isn't about you praying.
The prayer is invalid according to a number of scholars.
Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
It is not permissible to pray behind any of the mushrikeen, including those who seek the help of anyone other than Allaah and seek support from him, because seeking help through anyone other then Allaah, such as the dead, idols, the jinn, etc. is shirk, the association of others with Allaah, glorified be He.
Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz (vol. 2, p. 396)
One must not be of this nautre otherwise it is OK.
And he said: one should not pray behind any imaam who is known to exaggerate concerning the Ahl al-Bayt (members of the Prophet’s household). If no such thing is known about him or any other Muslim, then it is OK to pray behind them.
Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, vol. 12, p. 107
Original post by Tawheed
According to your belief, but not all sunni's share this belief.
Lol what?
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Original post by Ammmaaaraah
Assalamualaykum Sabah!
How are you? Just wanted to confirm, Oman is an Ibadhi majority community isn't it?
And do you know the differences between the Ibadhis and Shias?
Personally, I find that Oman is a very tolerable place, Sunnis, Shias and Ibadhis all get on so well, its beautiful
I also prayed at the Shia Mosque next to the Muttrah souk, and it wasn't as awkward as I thought it would be!
How are you? Just wanted to confirm, Oman is an Ibadhi majority community isn't it?
And do you know the differences between the Ibadhis and Shias?
Personally, I find that Oman is a very tolerable place, Sunnis, Shias and Ibadhis all get on so well, its beautiful
I also prayed at the Shia Mosque next to the Muttrah souk, and it wasn't as awkward as I thought it would be!
Walikumassalam. Yes, dear! It is an Ibadhi majority country.
Ah, you prayed there? I have only seen the mosque from outside. Never gone inside though! Yes, they do get along very well! In fact, they don't really restrict you if you want to pray in their mosques. People are extremely warm and their tolerance levels are Alhamdullilah on point. There are minor differences I've heard but not exactly sure of them. Tbh, I try to find out but then I'm unaware on the right sources because if I use wrong sources, won't be of a benefit lol. Would just create a bad clash and misunderstanding which I'm dead against.
Original post by Leukocyte
This isn't about you praying.
The prayer is invalid according to a number of scholars.
Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
It is not permissible to pray behind any of the mushrikeen, including those who seek the help of anyone other than Allaah and seek support from him, because seeking help through anyone other then Allaah, such as the dead, idols, the jinn, etc. is shirk, the association of others with Allaah, glorified be He.
Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz (vol. 2, p. 396)
One must not be of this nautre otherwise it is OK.
And he said: one should not pray behind any imaam who is known to exaggerate concerning the Ahl al-Bayt (members of the Prophet’s household). If no such thing is known about him or any other Muslim, then it is OK to pray behind them.
Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, vol. 12, p. 107
Posted from TSR Mobile
The prayer is invalid according to a number of scholars.
Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
It is not permissible to pray behind any of the mushrikeen, including those who seek the help of anyone other than Allaah and seek support from him, because seeking help through anyone other then Allaah, such as the dead, idols, the jinn, etc. is shirk, the association of others with Allaah, glorified be He.
Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz (vol. 2, p. 396)
One must not be of this nautre otherwise it is OK.
And he said: one should not pray behind any imaam who is known to exaggerate concerning the Ahl al-Bayt (members of the Prophet’s household). If no such thing is known about him or any other Muslim, then it is OK to pray behind them.
Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, vol. 12, p. 107
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Ibn Uthaymeen, Ibn Baz etc are all of the salafi-creed, and they not only consider shia's guilty of performing these acts, but swathes of sunni's. Take the example of the ashari's and matruidi's i.e orthodox schools in the ahlus-sunnah, among whom who believe tawassul and istigatha are allowed, who would also fall victim to that line of reasoning.
Would you argue shayk hamzah yusuf and many orthodox sunni scholars of the ashari and matruidi creed, who believe tawassul and istigatha is allowed, would also fall into the category you have shown here?
Here, Shaykh Hamzah Yusuf states it is allowed to directly call on the Prophet [saw] even though he is 'dead' in the literal sense, though truly 'alive' due to Quranic injunction, with the intention his help and intercession is not independent of the power, will and permission of Allah [azwj]
[video="youtube;TFezsaQnzhk"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFezsaQnzhk[/video]
This is the dominant position of the ahlus-sunnah wal jamaah by the way. I personally don't think you can state that only the salafi-creed's rulings or rulings from anyone from one particular branch of Islam are representative of everyone else.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Leukocyte
It's not permissible to pray behind a Shia.
Praying behind Ibaadis is not permissible too.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Praying behind Ibaadis is not permissible too.
Posted from TSR Mobile
But in Oman that's quite hard to tell actually who is an Ibadhi, who is a shia and who is a Sunni. The thing is, they permit each other to use their mosques. The reason why they do so is because they believe that end of the day, whether you are a shia,sunni or an Ibadhi, end of the day you are a Muslim! They feel that this idea of classification (despite differences)only creates a sort of division so, division will lead nothing but to clashes and misunderstandings.
Are Shia islam people happy/tolerant I follow a different religion to theirs?
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Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Leukocyte
This isn't about you praying.
The prayer is invalid according to a number of scholars.
Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
It is not permissible to pray behind any of the mushrikeen, including those who seek the help of anyone other than Allaah and seek support from him, because seeking help through anyone other then Allaah, such as the dead, idols, the jinn, etc. is shirk, the association of others with Allaah, glorified be He.
Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz (vol. 2, p. 396)
Posted from TSR Mobile
The prayer is invalid according to a number of scholars.
Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
It is not permissible to pray behind any of the mushrikeen, including those who seek the help of anyone other than Allaah and seek support from him, because seeking help through anyone other then Allaah, such as the dead, idols, the jinn, etc. is shirk, the association of others with Allaah, glorified be He.
Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz (vol. 2, p. 396)
Posted from TSR Mobile
This would also exclude , according to the atari and salafi aqeedah, prayer behind many major ahlus-sunnah wal jamaah scholars of the ashari and matruidi creeds [orthodox sunni islam] who believe tawassul and istigatha are both permissible if done with the right intention.
Again, Asrar Rashid who represents ashari's, debates abdurahman hasan, who represents the atari/salafi creed.
There was a big debate about this:
[video="youtube;FYRKuquV7_M"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYRKuquV7_M[/video]
Original post by Tawheed
Ibn Uthaymeen, Ibn Baz etc are all of the salafi-creed, and they not only consider shia's guilty of performing these acts, but swathes of sunni's. Take the example of the ashari's and matruidi's i.e orthodox schools in the ahlus-sunnah, among whom who believe tawassul and istigatha are allowed, who would also fall victim to that line of reasoning.
Would you argue shayk hamzah yusuf and many orthodox sunni scholars of the ashari and matruidi creed, who believe tawassul and istigatha is allowed, would also fall into the category you have shown here?
Here, Shaykh Hamzah Yusuf states it is allowed to directly call on the Prophet [saw] even though he is 'dead' in the literal sense, though truly 'alive' due to Quranic injunction, with the intention his help and intercession is not independent of the power, will and permission of Allah [azwj]
[video="youtube;TFezsaQnzhk"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFezsaQnzhk[/video]
This is the dominant position of the ahlus-sunnah wal jamaah by the way.
Would you argue shayk hamzah yusuf and many orthodox sunni scholars of the ashari and matruidi creed, who believe tawassul and istigatha is allowed, would also fall into the category you have shown here?
Here, Shaykh Hamzah Yusuf states it is allowed to directly call on the Prophet [saw] even though he is 'dead' in the literal sense, though truly 'alive' due to Quranic injunction, with the intention his help and intercession is not independent of the power, will and permission of Allah [azwj]
[video="youtube;TFezsaQnzhk"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFezsaQnzhk[/video]
This is the dominant position of the ahlus-sunnah wal jamaah by the way.
What's your obsession with Salafis?
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Original post by sabahshahed294
But in Oman that's quite hard to tell actually who is an Ibadhi, who is a shia and who is a Sunni. The thing is, they permit each other to use their mosques. The reason why they do so is because they believe that end of the day, whether you are a shia,sunni or an Ibadhi, end of the day you are a Muslim! They feel that this idea of classification (despite differences)only creates a sort of division so, division will lead nothing but to clashes and misunderstandings.
Due to the fact the sister in question is quoting fatwah from well-known shuyukh of the salafi school of thought, who are particularly hostile to orthodox ahlus sunnah groups like asharis and matruidi's, you may not get a reply encouraging his sort of tolerance, coexistence, peace and unity.
All i say is this, even if you don't pray behind someone, there is nothing wrong with praying in a mosque, and keeping peace, no matter what the disagreements.
Here is an excellent video and short few words on this by maliki ahlus-sunnah shaykh, Hamzah Yusuf:
[video="youtube;RMsCeR6cbl8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMsCeR6cbl8[/video]
Original post by sabahshahed294
But in Oman that's quite hard to tell actually who is an Ibadhi, who is a shia and who is a Sunni. The thing is, they permit each other to use their mosques. The reason why they do so is because they believe that end of the day, whether you are a shia,sunni or an Ibadhi, end of the day you are a Muslim! They feel that this idea of classification (despite differences)only creates a sort of division so, division will lead nothing but to clashes and misunderstandings.
Praying at a Sunni/Shia mosque isn't the issue, it is the house of Allah.
How can you unite with people who have beliefs totally out the fold of Islam, who curse the companions etc (?)
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Original post by Leukocyte
Sister, in principle, i have no issue with salafi's. But you've come into a thread i have made and told a brother if he prayed behind a shia, and that it was not permissible to pray behind them. I hope you understand why that offended me. In order to qualify the statement you made, you quoted well known salafi shuyukh like ibn baz [ a salafi shaykh].
All i wanted to hi-light to you here is that the salafi creed is not the only one in Islam and not representative in Islam. Therefore i wanted to show you that actually, ashari's, matruidi's and shia's would be victims of the Fatwah's you've brought here, and victims to many of the Fatwa's of ibn baz, ibn uthaymeen, and islamqa.
That's all i wanted to hi-light. here. I have no issue with salafi's, only those who seek to impose their views as the only view in Islam and everyone else as a 'deviant' and outside of the religion or as a mushrik etc. I myself as i have said, have salafi family members, and am on great terms with even salafi sheikhs.
Original post by Leukocyte
Praying at a Sunni/Shia mosque isn't the issue, it is the house of Allah.
How can you unite with people who have beliefs totally out the fold of Islam, who curse the companions etc (?)
Posted from TSR Mobile
How can you unite with people who have beliefs totally out the fold of Islam, who curse the companions etc (?)
Posted from TSR Mobile
To be honest, the issue here was on the following Fatwah:
It is not permissible to pray behind any of the mushrikeen, including those who seek the help of anyone other than Allaah and seek support from him, because seeking help through anyone other then Allaah, such as the dead, idols, the jinn, etc. is shirk, the association of others with Allaah, glorified be He.
Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz (vol. 2, p. 396)
Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz (vol. 2, p. 396)
And i've shown you how Sheikh Hamzah Yusuf, and many ashari ahlus-sunnah wal jamaah shuyukh who believe it is permissible to call on the Prophet [saw] directly with the intention of tawassul would fall victims and have fallen victims to this fatwah.
Here, Shaykh Hamzah Yusuf states it is allowed to directly call on the Prophet [saw] even though he is 'dead' in the literal sense, though truly 'alive' due to Quranic injunction, with the intention his help and intercession is not independent of the power, will and permission of Allah [azwj]
[video="youtube;TFezsaQnzhk"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFezsaQnzhk[/video]
Do you believe he is promoting mushrik beliefs, with due respect?
(edited 7 years ago)
I thought asrar rashid was a barelvi?
Original post by sabahshahed294
x.
People will try to incite hatred in your heart towards another group, but keep to your view that it is key to have peaceful coexistence and tolerance despite differences.
Original post by Tawheed
In the name of Allah , the beneficent, the merciful.
All praise belongs to Allah. There is none worthy or worship save Allah. To him is our final return, and our ultimate goal. May Allah (azwj) send his blessing on the seal of the prophets, the greatest man to have ever walked this earth, Muhammed s.a.w, and his Ahlulbayt a.s., who are the second of the two weighty things, and those who preserved his sunnah.
Shia Islam , due to a plethora of factors, from political to secterian, has been distorted in many circles, and there are absolutely profound misconceptions about it. As a shia muslim, i believe it is the truth, the path closest to the Sunnah of Muhammed s.a.w, the path most firm in its understanding on Tawheed. Having said that, i have love for my brothers in the ahlus-sunnah. I have family members who are sunni's, and i have love for them. Unity between shia's and sunni's is essential, and the need to foster harmony, mercy, and tolerance between the groups.
In order to give people a very brief, and basic introduction to Shia Islam [so the muslim and non-muslim can appreciate]:
1. Shia muslims[and sunni Muslims] believe in One God. The principles of Tawheed is the first and most important principle in shia Islam. Shirk and Polytheism is considered the most abhorrent of sins.
2. Shia muslims believe that Muhammed s.a.w, the greatest creation, the greatest man to walk this earth, was the last and final prophet of God, the seal. We believe his Sunnah, and his example is what we absolutely strive to follow. We believe Rasullah s.a.w clearly stated, in both sunni and shia books, that in order to follow his Sunnah, one must hold onto the Quran AND the Ahlulbayt:
3. Shia muslims believe that the Quran is the last and final revelation of God. The Quran we have in content is the preserved Quran with no alteration in its verses and the Quran has not undergone corruption. Any ahadith in shia and sunni works which give that impression are often weak, or wrongly interpreted. And this is the Ijma of shia scholars.
4. Shia muslims respect many companions of Muhammed s.a.w. However, we view the companions of Muhammed s.a.w in the same way and light as the Quran views them. There are those loyal, those of varying levels of belief, those who do not possess true belief in their hearts, as some examples. We do not regard the sahaba in the view that they were all good and righteous. Rather, we look at them as any large body and group of human beings. Similar to all the other Prophets of God, From Jesus a.s to Moses a.s, in any large body or group of people, there are those who are loyal, those who have faith in varying levels, those who change, those who turn back, those who are not sincere.
We revere the matyrs of the Holy Wars, such as the matyr's of Badr r.a, among the others. We revere many notable companions - four of whom are in the top ten narrators of sunni hadith books. They are, Jabir ibn Abdullah r.a, Abu said al khudri r.a, Ibn Abbas r.a, Abdullah ibn Mas'ud r.a. vWe revere many more notable companions.
5. The vast majorty of shia's do not engage in acts of taking knives and swords and cutting themselves. Many shia ulema, past and present, from the likes of Imam Khomeini, to Imam Khamanei have been against it. Those who allow it do so on conditions. Join me in prayer that we see this relatively recent cultural infiltration, as it is done, dissapears and is eradicated. [CLICK ON SPOILER FOR ABSOLUTE CONDEMNATION OF CUTTING FROM ULEMA]
.
Read above brother
All praise belongs to Allah. There is none worthy or worship save Allah. To him is our final return, and our ultimate goal. May Allah (azwj) send his blessing on the seal of the prophets, the greatest man to have ever walked this earth, Muhammed s.a.w, and his Ahlulbayt a.s., who are the second of the two weighty things, and those who preserved his sunnah.
Shia Islam , due to a plethora of factors, from political to secterian, has been distorted in many circles, and there are absolutely profound misconceptions about it. As a shia muslim, i believe it is the truth, the path closest to the Sunnah of Muhammed s.a.w, the path most firm in its understanding on Tawheed. Having said that, i have love for my brothers in the ahlus-sunnah. I have family members who are sunni's, and i have love for them. Unity between shia's and sunni's is essential, and the need to foster harmony, mercy, and tolerance between the groups.
In order to give people a very brief, and basic introduction to Shia Islam [so the muslim and non-muslim can appreciate]:
1. Shia muslims[and sunni Muslims] believe in One God. The principles of Tawheed is the first and most important principle in shia Islam. Shirk and Polytheism is considered the most abhorrent of sins.
2. Shia muslims believe that Muhammed s.a.w, the greatest creation, the greatest man to walk this earth, was the last and final prophet of God, the seal. We believe his Sunnah, and his example is what we absolutely strive to follow. We believe Rasullah s.a.w clearly stated, in both sunni and shia books, that in order to follow his Sunnah, one must hold onto the Quran AND the Ahlulbayt:
3. Shia muslims believe that the Quran is the last and final revelation of God. The Quran we have in content is the preserved Quran with no alteration in its verses and the Quran has not undergone corruption. Any ahadith in shia and sunni works which give that impression are often weak, or wrongly interpreted. And this is the Ijma of shia scholars.
4. Shia muslims respect many companions of Muhammed s.a.w. However, we view the companions of Muhammed s.a.w in the same way and light as the Quran views them. There are those loyal, those of varying levels of belief, those who do not possess true belief in their hearts, as some examples. We do not regard the sahaba in the view that they were all good and righteous. Rather, we look at them as any large body and group of human beings. Similar to all the other Prophets of God, From Jesus a.s to Moses a.s, in any large body or group of people, there are those who are loyal, those who have faith in varying levels, those who change, those who turn back, those who are not sincere.
We revere the matyrs of the Holy Wars, such as the matyr's of Badr r.a, among the others. We revere many notable companions - four of whom are in the top ten narrators of sunni hadith books. They are, Jabir ibn Abdullah r.a, Abu said al khudri r.a, Ibn Abbas r.a, Abdullah ibn Mas'ud r.a. vWe revere many more notable companions.
5. The vast majorty of shia's do not engage in acts of taking knives and swords and cutting themselves. Many shia ulema, past and present, from the likes of Imam Khomeini, to Imam Khamanei have been against it. Those who allow it do so on conditions. Join me in prayer that we see this relatively recent cultural infiltration, as it is done, dissapears and is eradicated. [CLICK ON SPOILER FOR ABSOLUTE CONDEMNATION OF CUTTING FROM ULEMA]
Spoiler
.
Read above brother
So you know the level of belief in the hearts of certain sahaba? smh
Original post by F18 Super Hornet
I thought asrar rashid was a barelvi?
Yes, he is, but his views are shared by many ashari and matruidi shuyukh, paticularly on the issue of tawassul and istigatha, and these orthodox sunni groups often fall victim to salafi's.
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