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Reply 80
Original post by HabibSyed
What people expect, and whats justified are two different things. Also, since when is it okay to make one unnecessarily uncomfortable to make another comfortable from being unnecessarily uncomfortable irrationally? The majority of society is okay with the Burka anyways, just take a look at our democratic parliament. Since when do we make people change to make society comfortable? Your logic takes us back centuries, where 'society' would feel uncomfortable sitting next to a black person, where 'society' was uncomfortable with women out of the kitchen. Now that I mention it, don't the very SAME people on TSR say that muslims need to deal with their uncomfortable feelings towards homosexuality on LGBT forums? Talk about hypocrisy.


What are you on about? I literally have no clue what point you're trying to make. What my post said is that if more people got to know Muslim women who wear burkas, those who are currently uncomfortable with the idea would become more comfortable. It's a normal human response to initially be a bit wary of something they're not familiar with, but using that gut reaction as justification for calling to ban the burka, as some on this thread have been doing, isn't reasonable.

What exactly did you think I was trying to say?
(edited 6 years ago)
Reply 81
Original post by CompleteMorality
Westerners in authority would rather see a teenage girl have her body exposed to public scrutiny than try to protect her from gossip and slander during what should be a time devoted to exams.
I'm calling Poe's Law on this one.
Reply 82
Original post by Getinthegutter
Yes that's correct, I was forced to take it down despite him having the Hezbulloah flag in his window, practically supporting a terrorist organisation
Didn't happen.
Reply 83
Original post by Moonstruck16
He's one of the most deluded Muslims on this forum.

Posted from TSR Mobile
She.
Reply 84
Original post by Beth_H
What my post said is that if more people got to know Muslim women who wear burkas, those who are currently uncomfortable with the idea would become more comfortable.
Not an easy task for non-Mahram men!

Likewise, if burqa/niqab wearing women got to know western men a bit more they would realise that it is not a mask and robe that stops them from being ogled and molested but rather our basic decency and respect for others.

It's a normal human response to initially be a bit wary of something they're not familiar with, but using that gut reaction as justification for calling to ban the burka, as some on this thread have been doing, isn't reasonable.
I think it is entirely reasonable to ban face veils in situations where other masks and face coverings are prohibited. Anywhere else, people can wear veils, masks, balaclavas or whatever as they see fit. I don't see the problem.
Original post by astutehirstute
Let's accept your your premise. This is all racism, Islamophobia, no inhabitant of a Muslim country ever wants to live in the west ya de ya.

(Except you, obviously).

If Afghanistan isn't such a sh ithole, why are so many Afghans emigrating to Asia and the Middle East?


Same reason why anyone else immigrates. So many Afghans arn't immigrating anywhere. Of course, some are immigrating, but not enough to say the people of Afghanistan are all immigrating.

I'm a British Canadian. I'm British by blood, so I don't know what you're talking about by saying "except" me.
Original post by astutehirstute
This is one of the funniest posts I have ever read on TSR.

An apologist for one the most backward, primitive, barbaric, medieval cultures on the face of the earth accuses another poster of wanting to take "society" back centuries.

Dressing women like they are in a parrot cage takes us back centuries, mate. We don't do that in civilised nations.

What part of that don't you get?


How does someones dress take them back centuries? Isn't much of a civilised nation if an individuals dress will take it back centuries.
Original post by astutehirstute
Do you think we are all stupid??

Do you think we don't know Afghan women are oppressed?


What oppressed Afghan women are you talking about? They don't seem to exist.
Original post by QE2
Not an easy task for non-Mahram men!

Likewise, if burqa/niqab wearing women got to know western men a bit more they would realise that it is not a mask and robe that stops them from being ogled and molested but rather our basic decency and respect for others.

I think it is entirely reasonable to ban face veils in situations where other masks and face coverings are prohibited. Anywhere else, people can wear veils, masks, balaclavas or whatever as they see fit. I don't see the problem.


So a regular women wearing regular cloths don't have to talk or engage with any men they don't wish to, but women in Burka's must engage with non-mahram men to show that their engaging with society? I don't get it? You make no sense. Why is it a problem if a women doesn't talk with certain people?
Catholics will be doing that soon.
Original post by HabibSyed
So a regular women wearing regular cloths don't have to talk or engage with any men they don't wish to, but women in Burka's must engage with non-mahram men to show that their engaging with society? I don't get it? You make no sense. Why is it a problem if a women doesn't talk with certain people?


The problem is the reason why they don't speak to certain people.

Posted from TSR Mobile
I don't see any issue with asking a pupil to remove a Burka. It is designed to mask certain features. I personally feel that anyone should wear anything reflecting religion in education.

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Original post by astutehirstute
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/muslim-mother-london-school-face-veil-ban-daughter-niqab-holland-park-rachida-serroukh-a7852396.html

This woman is a vexatious litigant, what a waste of the court's time. If she wins her lawyer will be enriched as will she, and the public purse impoverished. To what good end?

The more incidents there are like this, the more the division grows between non Muslims and non non Muslims.

Many will feel If she is so unhappy with this, why doesn't she go and live in a country where she would be forced to wear a burka anyway? Like Afghanistan?


While the "burka" is not an Islamic requirement, females should have the freedom to wear whatever they want without being bullied, criticized or harassed for it. If tolerance is something the 21st century is leaning towards to, then who are we to say what people can and can't do?

And to you OP, your comment:
Many will feel If she is so unhappy with this, why doesn't she go and live in a country where she would be forced to wear a burka anyway? Like Afghanistan?

This kind of thinking is dangerous because you're indirectly displaying an act/thought of intolerance. The burka might seem absurd to you but to others, it isn't.

If the school is so worried about this for "security" reasons, they can let a female investigate the woman every morning before school starts.
Original post by satisfactionatlast
While the "burka" is not an Islamic requirement, females should have the freedom to wear whatever they want without being bullied, criticized or harassed for it. If tolerance is something the 21st century is leaning towards to, then who are we to say what people can and can't do?


Many will feel If she is so unhappy with this, why doesn't she go and live in a country where she would be forced to wear a burka anyway? Like Afghanistan?

This kind of thinking is dangerous because you're indirectly displaying an act/thought of intolerance. The burka might seem absurd to you but to others, it isn't.
.


Tolerance isn't an absolute moral good. It is an evil if what is tolerated is itself immoral, as I believe the Burka is in Afghanistan, its natural habitat.

So I make no apologies for being intolerant of this article of " clothing."

I don't argue for it being outlawed, a la Francais, such a ban is impossible to enforce, but I do argue that it should not be regarded as socially acceptable by everyone else in society. It should not be normalised, as you put it, "tolerated."

Of course western societies are more tolerant than Muslim ones, and that is good. It is what makes us so superior. But there are limits to tolerance. Some things cross the line, honour killings, fgm, and yes, wearing the burka.

It is simple good manners to reveal your face in social interaction.
Original post by HabibSyed
How does someones dress take them back centuries? Isn't much of a civilised nation if an individuals dress will take it back centuries.


If you seriously don't think wearing certain items of apparel takes you back centuries try wearing a codpiece and ruff down your local pub! :biggrin:
Original post by HabibSyed
Same reason why anyone else immigrates. So many Afghans arn't immigrating anywhere. Of course, some are immigrating, but not enough to say the people of Afghanistan are all immigrating.

I'm a British Canadian. I'm British by blood, so I don't know what you're talking about by saying "except" me.


To your last point you are most certainly not. What does "British by blood" even mean?

To your first there are a lot more people fro Afghanistan trying to leave the country, than there are those trying to move, there, let's put it like that.

Or maybe I have missed the huge queues of hopeful applicants wishing to make new lives outside the Afghan Embassies in London, Paris and DC...
Lawsuits are ultimately about money - putting a dollar..... or in this case a pound..... figure on suffering. Admittedly there is some question as to how much she even "suffered" from this request.
She just wants the money, but who wouldn't take that opportunity if they could? Hopefully she doesn't succeed though, I don't want our public finances being wasted on a silly issue like this.
Original post by Alan_Shore
Lawsuits are ultimately about money - putting a dollar..... or in this case a pound..... figure on suffering. Admittedly there is some question as to how much she even "suffered" from this request.


They are also sometimes used to make a poltical point.

This is one of those times.
Original post by Moonstruck16
The problem is the reason why they don't speak to certain people.

Posted from TSR Mobile


Why must a woman in Burka speak to certain people? Why doesn't a woman without a Burka have to speak with certain people? Is there new legislation saying its illegal not to speak with certain people? Are you taking us back to year 1, where everybody is a winner, everybody is a friend, and you have to be nice to everyone? Where does this logic come from? Why on Earth is there a problem if a woman DOESN'T speak to someone? If a woman in regular cloths doesn't have to speak to anyone she doesn't wish to, neither does a women in a Burka.

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