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Friend lied on his personal statement... advice?

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Original post by SlowlorisIncognito
Unfortunately, universities and UCAS take lying about qualifications very seriously, so it's unlikely that everything will just be ok. As he's applying for music, this is more serious than if he were applying for another subject- and I believe music applicants are often asked for proof of the grades they've achieved.

Has he listed his music grades on the UCAS form or just mentioned them in his PS? Grades 6-8 give UCAS points, so if he's mentioned taking grade 8 in his PS, but not in his qualifications as pending, then the university might suspect something is up. If he's listed qualifications he doesn't hold elsewhere on his form this is fraud, and is very likely to result in offers being withdrawn. If universities can prove the applicant applied fraudulently, the place can be withdrawn at any time, including after enrollment.

If he has only mentioned this in his PS, then it's possible the university will skim over it- but it's unlikely they won't notice this for a music degree. If they contact him to confirm his qualifications, he definately shouldn't lie.

I would suggest that it would be best for him to own up (or at least say that he made a typing error if it's just on the PS). He won't know if he's gotten away with it until enrollment, or possibly even afterwards- this will eat away at him for months, and it is likely he will lose his place anyway. He will have to take the consequences, but at least he will know where he stands for next year.

What's he planning to do if they give him grade 8 as a condition of his offer?


But if he's only planning to go for a grade eight, I don't think universities will treat that claim very seriously. It's not a promise whatsoever, and won't be a problem unless that turns out to be one of the conditions. Also, it would make no sense for him to list it anywhere else because he hasn't even applied for a G8 in this case. It makes sense to just say it in his PS like any mention of a career goal or a future study goal.
Original post by Ripper-Roo
It is. UCAS doesn't have the right to ban someone for 3 years. Universities can reject but a silly mistake and that? Too harsh.


Well UCAS obviously does have the right considering she was banned and had to go to Europe for Uni instead.
Original post by lipslikemorphine
I agree with everyone else on him needing to do the exams because they'll probably ask. Though i have to add that whatever happens is hes fault.

Won't they know he's lying anyway when they see the date on the certificate and realise that he did the exam after he applied?


I looked at my ABRSM Theory of Music certificate and it listed only the year.
Reply 63
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Well UCAS obviously does have the right considering she was banned and had to go to Europe for Uni instead.


Better off without UCAS then.
Original post by Ripper-Roo
Better off without UCAS then.


Not really. To be fair, the amount of times we were given talks about not plagiarising and lying on our PS and she completely disregarded them.
Reply 65
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Not really. To be fair, the amount of times we were given talks about not plagiarising and lying on our PS and she completely disregarded them.


But three years? People make mistakes. If she didn't go to Europe, that could have been her future postponed for 3 years!
Original post by Kabloomybuzz
even if he gets the certificate, if the uni's ask to see them they'll know he's lied because he'll know the date on them is later than his application


I was listening to Single Ladies when I saw your sig… quite amusing watching Christoper Eccleston dance to that haha!


Original post by Ripper-Roo
But three years? People make mistakes. If she didn't go to Europe, that could have been her future postponed for 3 years!


Seems deserved for lying IMO.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 67
Original post by oliviaadams
So, my friend told a lie on his personal statement and is really, really worried about it now. He was in tears yesterday. He has applied for a music degree at Kings, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Goldsmiths and Bristol. Everything, he says, on his personal statement is absolutely correct and the guy really loves his subject. However, he stated that he had already achieved his grade 5 theory and grade 5 piratical in piano when, in reality, he has only achieved grade 4 piratical in piano and is just about to sit his grade 5 theory. He also said that he is preparing for his grade 8 exam and intents to sit it before starting university, but in actually fact he's going to sit his grade 5. I play grade 8 piano though and he's better than me, so I can say with all honesty that he plays at grade 8 standard. He doesn't have an account but I want to tell him it'll be okay. Can anything happen? He has offers from Kings and Newcastle, but Edinburgh is his first choice.


It is such a big lie for someone who is planning to do a music degree and they may well ask for proof of certificates at some point. Your qualifications for the degree are vital and lying about that is just plain dishonest and someone like that does not deserve to go to uni to study that degree. Being honest is so important and shows integrity. It's a basic requirement.
Original post by Ripper-Roo
It is. UCAS doesn't have the right to ban someone for 3 years. Universities can reject but a silly mistake and that? Too harsh.



If UCAS had decided to prosecute for the criminal offence she had committed, she would almost certainly have received a Referral Order (assuming a guilty plea and being a first offender) or a Youth Rehabilitation Order (in other cases).
Are these certificates asked for by the university? If they don't ask to see his certificates then he'll be fine, but if they do then he'll be in trouble most likely. I don't know how music degrees work, but if they still ask for the normal A Levels and that is what offers are based on, then he may well get away with it.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 70
The only thing I could think of it rushing grade 5 then a higher grade? Grade 8 would be best since hes already mentioned it if he could manage but if not could he do grade 7 theory/practical or 6?

That way if he gets asked he could produce his highest graded certificates if asked and play it from 'I didn't think I needed to bring the lower ones' angle. Its risky, and I wouldn't want to be his position but it may just get around any awkward dates while proving he can play to a level at least as well as he said he could.

If it were me though I'd probably withdraw, get to grade 8 (skipping 5 if you can, though I know you need the theory) and reapply while spending the time improving/getting work experience and saving up for example giving piano lessons (since Edinburgh is expensive :tongue:). He'll be in a much better position for offers and also the work load. While I've never done music academically and don't know what exact degree he'll be doing, I'd be wary anyway if he was going to university without a grade 8. I know someone who was rejected from Edinburgh despite being grade 8 and an incredible player.

I know schools vary but I'd have thought he needed the grade 5 to get to A level and its something the teachers should have been working on as soon as he said he wanted to do at university.
Original post by clh_hilary
I looked at my ABRSM Theory of Music certificate and it listed only the year.


Even then. You write your PS and do UCAS in 2013 and if he did it now he's certificate would say 2014...
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by lipslikemorphine
Even then. You right your PS and do UCAS in 2013 and if he did it now he's certificate would say 2014...


Oh hmm that's right. But you can argue that you meant you have applied and was going to take it before universities consider you (so just getting a bit ahead of yourself).

And with minor things like this, I don't think the admin staff would really notice. Obviously that depends on luck.
Original post by clh_hilary
But if he's only planning to go for a grade eight, I don't think universities will treat that claim very seriously. It's not a promise whatsoever, and won't be a problem unless that turns out to be one of the conditions. Also, it would make no sense for him to list it anywhere else because he hasn't even applied for a G8 in this case. It makes sense to just say it in his PS like any mention of a career goal or a future study goal.


I suppose so, but I'm not convinced that someone who is lying in their PS will behave sensibly in other ways.

Also, if he has listed contradicting information in his qualifications section and his PS, this may flag it as something a university might keep an eye on. I'm pretty sure OP said he claimed to have grade 5 already when actually he doesn't.

I am not saying it is an impossibility to get away with, just that if you don't get away with it, the consequences can be a lot more serious than just a slapped wrist from UCAS. Apparently he is already stressed/worried- so it is up to the person who has commited the offense to decide if they can live with that stress and worry for the next 6-7 months and if they could deal with the consequences if they are found out.
Original post by clh_hilary
Oh hmm that's right. But you can argue that you meant you have applied and was going to take it before universities consider you (so just getting a bit ahead of yourself).

And with minor things like this, I don't think the admin staff would really notice. Obviously that depends on luck.


Music qualifications for a music degree are not necessarily minor considereations.

Deliberarely lying on the PS is very frowned on, and in this instance could be considered fraud by the universities and UCAS as it is in relation to relevant qualifications for the course.
Original post by SlowlorisIncognito
Music qualifications for a music degree are not necessarily minor considereations.

Deliberarely lying on the PS is very frowned on, and in this instance could be considered fraud by the universities and UCAS as it is in relation to relevant qualifications for the course.


Minor as in the final digit of the year.
Original post by SlowlorisIncognito
I suppose so, but I'm not convinced that someone who is lying in their PS will behave sensibly in other ways.

Also, if he has listed contradicting information in his qualifications section and his PS, this may flag it as something a university might keep an eye on. I'm pretty sure OP said he claimed to have grade 5 already when actually he doesn't.

I am not saying it is an impossibility to get away with, just that if you don't get away with it, the consequences can be a lot more serious than just a slapped wrist from UCAS. Apparently he is already stressed/worried- so it is up to the person who has commited the offense to decide if they can live with that stress and worry for the next 6-7 months and if they could deal with the consequences if they are found out.


I think the biggest thing at the moment is that they are always going to find out that he hasn't got a grade five.
Original post by lipslikemorphine
Even then. You write your PS and do UCAS in 2013 and if he did it now he's certificate would say 2014...

Technically deadline is in 2014, so by getting that certificate before university asks for it he could quite easily talk out of the situation...
Original post by swanderfeild
Technically deadline is in 2014, so by getting that certificate before university asks for it he could quite easily talk out of the situation...


No amount of talking could change the fact that the lied. :rolleyes:
Original post by lipslikemorphine
No amount of talking could change the fact that the lied. :rolleyes:

Yes but minimise the damage caused from that. Instead of it being seen as a malicious lie, they could see it as being an honest miscommunication. If he get the qualification in before May(?), he could claim that since he was originally going to take exams before January 15 so thought it would be fine to mention that in statement. Due to some made up circumstances he couldn't take those exams in January and had to postpone it by few months but forgot to change it in personal statement. It was only latter (after getting the certificates) that he realised the mistake but since by this time he has those certificates didn't think it was nessecery to mention the oversight (as there was no harm done). Then put in an apology for the mistake on his part and send copy of certificates he got.
This way it can be viewed as a simple oversight and error in judgement which was resolved few months latter rather than a major lie.

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