David Cameron dismisses second Scottish Referendum before 2020

Original post by offhegoes

You may say I'm being too demanding for a simple internet forum,

Frankly, I'm surprised you asked the question. I'd have thought he whole world must be aware that the SNP's economic case was a pile of lies with ridiculous assumptions, that the very idea of automatic entry to the EU for Scotland is preposterous, and that a currency union was going to be a non-starter from the UK's point of view. I assume you are coming to the debate a year or so late.

Reply 66

Original post by Good bloke

Frankly, I'm surprised you asked the question. I'd have thought he whole world must be aware that the SNP's economic case was a pile of lies with ridiculous assumptions, that the very idea of automatic entry to the EU for Scotland is preposterous, and that a currency union was going to be a non-starter from the UK's point of view. I assume you are coming to the debate a year or so late.

Not at all, I voted in the referendum and spent a long time carefully considering my decision. Having been a firm undecided at least a year before I had to cast my vote I believe I considered both sides' arguments carefully, and at all points when colleagues tried to sway me I asked for sources on points that I considered to not be self-evident.

I ask partly because the issue is of ongoing relevence to me and I want to stay informed, and partly because I don't believe that complex issues can honestly be summed up in such a simple fashion.

Reply 67

Original post by offhegoes

I don't believe that complex issues can honestly be summed up in such a simple fashion.

There is nothing complex about the UK party leaders' commitment that there would be no currency union, and nothing complex about the reasons why it would be a terrible idea for the UK. The same applies to an automatic entry to the EU. The lies and silly assumptions may be more hidden but they are pretty obvious to people of even the meanest intelligence, and have been proved top be such. This is why I'm surprised you had to ask, just as if they were new or unproven arguments to you.

Reply 68

Original post by Good bloke

There is nothing complex about the UK party leaders' commitment that there would be no currency union, and nothing complex about the reasons why it would be a terrible idea for the UK. The same applies to an automatic entry to the EU. The lies and silly assumptions may be more hidden but they are pretty obvious to people of even the meanest intelligence, and have been proved top be such. This is why I'm surprised you had to ask, just as if they were new or unproven arguments to you.

The more you tell me how obvious it all is and how even someone of the meanest intelligence should see it to be so, the more likely I am to insist that these statements be backed up by more than just utterings of "everyone knows that..."

Firstly if it is so ridiculous simple then it should be pretty easy to provide evidence that it is so. Secondly it would be nice for you to perhaps assume that I wouldnmt be asking if I were convinced.

Reply 69

This one?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/11698662/SNP-dramatically-cuts-pre-referendum-oil-predictions.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11481354/SNP-referendum-oil-figures-13-times-higher-than-reality.html

Original post by offhegoes

The more you tell me how obvious it all is and how even someone of the meanest intelligence should see it to be so, the more likely I am to insist that these statements be backed up by more than just utterings of "everyone knows that..."

Firstly if it is so ridiculous simple then it should be pretty easy to provide evidence that it is so. Secondly it would be nice for you to perhaps assume that I wouldnmt be asking if I were convinced.

Well, the SNP have to get their votes from somewhere. You'll do.

Reply 70

MatureStudent36

5

Original post by offhegoes

Which refers to which?

The headlines are pretty self explanatory.

For example, the first one say 'salmond spent £20k of taxpayers money hiding the fact he didn't have legal advice on the EU.'

Reply 71

MatureStudent36

5

Original post by Good bloke

You forgot one that details that oil tax revenues will only be one tenth what the SNP predicted during the referendum.

Reply 72

This one?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/11698662/SNP-dramatically-cuts-pre-referendum-oil-predictions.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11481354/SNP-referendum-oil-figures-13-times-higher-than-reality.html

Original post by MatureStudent36

Yup.

Reply 73

Original post by Good bloke

Well, the SNP have to get their votes from somewhere. You'll do.

Nice sidestep.

Reply 74

flamboy

I don't really care - I wouldn't be surprised if the SNP thought they were entitled to "another go" in the next decade because they are the kind of political party that would be so insufferable as to demand that. however, as I'm suggesting, I don't think they're entitled to one any time soon. they lost it, and they should forget about this issue for a while.

Reply 75

IIEquinoxII

9

Original post by MatureStudent36

Full fiscal autonomy?

You do realise that the SNP made up their numbers and Scotland's now financially screwed since oil prices have plummeted?

Is it the intention of all SNP supporters to go into self destruct mode and screw over the poorest of society even more?

Isn't it about time the SNP started to govern instead of constantly complain?

They said cameron should call their bluff on fiscal autonomy, i.e. let them have it, then watch as support for the SNP plummets because people realise they need to be in the union

Reply 76

ibzombie96

17

Original post by scrotgrot

What precedent are you referring to?

The Luxembourg Compromise - it was a deal reached in 1996/1997 (can't remember, can't be bothered to look up) wherein a long, protracted disagreement between France and the EU meant that if a member of the EU felt its national interests were being fundamentally undermined/harmed by the EU, the EU cannot just eject them - negotiations must go one until a compromise is reached.

Reply 77

MatureStudent36

5

Original post by IIEquinoxII

They said cameron should call their bluff on fiscal autonomy, i.e. let them have it, then watch as support for the SNP plummets because people realise they need to be in the union

You're average SNP supporter still believes in oil funds, secret oil fields off the west coast and are generally economically illiterate.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 78

The average supporter of independence has no interest in fiscal autonomy as part of the UK. Some think Scotland will be wealthier. Some think it will be poorer. They all just want freedom to make their own choices, mistakes included.

The economy is not the most important factor for the majority of independence voters.

Reply 79