Government to suspend Parliament Watch

Poll: Should parliament have been suspended?
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I'm not sure (162)
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Napp
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Wired_1800)
Yes, we hope for a Brexit deal with the EU, but we are preparing for No Deal. For 3 years, we have been mugged off by Theresa May and Phillip Hammond, now we really leave the EU.

If the nation backed the PM in 2017, maybe we would have been in a better situation now.
Blaming everyone else for your own folly is hardly an argument...
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Wired_1800
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Napp)
Blaming everyone else for your own folly is hardly an argument...
How?

We voted to Leave as a nation. Mrs May and Mr Hammond messed up the negotiation and sold us down the river. The deal was so bad that even her own MPs refused to support it. It was rejected 3 times, yet you talk about ‘my folly’.
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Napp
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#63
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#63
(Original post by Wired_1800)
How?

We voted to Leave as a nation. Mrs May and Mr Hammond messed up the negotiation and sold us down the river. The deal was so bad that even her own MPs refused to support it. It was rejected 3 times, yet you talk about ‘my folly’.
You voted for this, knowing full well no specifics had been offered and indeed that the promised gold paved streets was a lie - or at least I sincerely hope you didn’t fall for said lies - you are this in no position to complain that you aren’t leaving in the correct manner. As you lot have repeated ad nauseum ‘Brexit means brexit’ the fact none of you can agree on details is entirely and irrefutably breixteers fault.
Last edited by Napp; 3 weeks ago
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shadowdweller
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Wired_1800)
That is fair and I agree, but people voted to leave. If we are being stopped from leaving, what happens next? We leave, deal or no deal.
Personally I believe we should be able to have a vote on the deal, if there is one, or on whether we want to leave with a no deal if there isn't one.
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Wired_1800
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#65
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#65
(Original post by shadowdweller)
Personally I believe we should be able to have a vote on the deal, if there is one, or on whether we want to leave with a no deal if there isn't one.
Any subsequent vote opens the door to remain which betrays the referendum. If we want to join after some years, we can have another vote then.
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random_matt
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#66
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#66
Democracy only exists in parliament apparently. Double standards and a bunch of hypocrites.
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Wired_1800
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#67
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#67
(Original post by Napp)
You voted for this, knowing full well no specifics had been offered and indeed that the promised gold paved streets was a lie - or at least I sincerely hope you didn’t fall for said lies - you are this in no position to complain that you aren’t leaving in the correct manner. As you lot have repeated ad nauseum ‘Brexit means brexit’ the fact none of you can agree on details is entirely and irrefutably breixteers fault.
No it is not. It was the fault of Parliament stacked with 70% or so choosing remain and doing whatever to thwart the will of the people. Many sane Brexiteers wanted to leave with a deal. The EU, together with Madam May, chose to do us dirty by coming up with a ridiculous plan that was rejected 3 times.

When Boris Johnson became PM, the comments were that we should see what the Brexiteers would do with Brexit. Now people are upset that the Brexiteers are actually serious about Brexit.

It is simple and up to the EU. Give the UK a deal or we leave with no deal. Gone are the days when Tusk and Barnier could bluff Mrs May because they knew she was hot air. Now, Barnier and Tusk, hopefully have met their match.
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shadowdweller
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Wired_1800)
Any subsequent vote opens the door to remain which betrays the referendum. If we want to join after some years, we can have another vote then.
I disagree - we agreed we wanted to leave in principle, but not the specifics in practice.
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Wired_1800
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#69
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#69
(Original post by shadowdweller)
I disagree - we agreed we wanted to leave in principle, but not the specifics in practice.
Ok, we are here now. We have to leave.
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shadowdweller
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Wired_1800)
Ok, we are here now. We have to leave.
The fundamental point here is that we don't have to leave though - whilst it's unlikely to be the case that we don't, it's certainly not written in stone.
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The RAR
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#71
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#71
Might as well, we won't be getting anywhere (Leave or remain) whilst these MPs keep on voting down or up any proposals regarding Brexit
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random_matt
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#72
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#72
Queen has approved.
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Fullofsurprises
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#73
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#73
(Original post by Wired_1800)
It is simple and up to the EU. Give the UK a deal or we leave with no deal. Gone are the days when Tusk and Barnier could bluff Mrs May because they knew she was hot air. Now, Barnier and Tusk, hopefully have met their match.
I hope your confidence about the consequences of a no-deal exit matches the reality, but sadly, I think you are going to find yourself wondering if you were right to be so keen on it after a few months of chaos.
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Wired_1800
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#74
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#74
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I hope your confidence about the consequences of a no-deal exit matches the reality, but sadly, I think you are going to find yourself wondering if you were right to be so keen on it after a few months of chaos.
Unfortunately, I don't share your pessimism.

My view is that the EU would wake up from their slumber and get serious about a deal. They have claimed to want a good deal but have done what they could to not give us a good deal. If the UK leaves without any movement from the EU, then we will know that they have been lying for years and actually hate the UK. It is up to them now.
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Wired_1800
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#75
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#75
(Original post by shadowdweller)
The fundamental point here is that we don't have to leave though - whilst it's unlikely to be the case that we don't, it's certainly not written in stone.
We have to leave. If we don't, we spit at the faces of the British people. It is abhorrent that a democratic nation would descend to the level of authoritarian regimes with no democracy.

Queen has approved. This is the start of a new era for the UK.
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Billy345
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#76
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#76
The EU have all the cards in negotiation. They know that we will he worse off if we don’t have a deal. Furthermore, they need to be tough to discourage other members from leaving. And as for them hating the UK that simply isn’t true they allowed concessions under Cameron to prevent us leaving so you can’t say they hate us
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Fullofsurprises
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Wired_1800)
Unfortunately, I don't share your pessimism.

My view is that the EU would wake up from their slumber and get serious about a deal. They have claimed to want a good deal but have done what they could to not give us a good deal. If the UK leaves without any movement from the EU, then we will know that they have been lying for years and actually hate the UK. It is up to them now.
I don't think Boris has any interest in a serious renegotiation and they know it. He is purely for the Tories and within that, a narrow slice of global financier interests and has no concerns over our real economy. If you take the motor industry as an example, it relies on immense just in time flows of goods through the ports - even small interruptions can result in mass layoffs. That's a million jobs. The backstop was needed because we had to stay in the CU to make that kind of thing continue to work.
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Billy345
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#78
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#78
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I don't think Boris has any interest in a serious renegotiation and they know it. He is purely for the Tories and within that, a narrow slice of global financier interests and has no concerns over our real economy. If you take the motor industry as an example, it relies on immense just in time flows of goods through the ports - even small interruptions can result in mass layoffs. That's a million jobs. The backstop was needed because we had to stay in the CU to make that kind of thing continue to work.
I agree all of boris Johnson’s actions are aimed at winning a general election. But let’s not forget that the tories are a broadchurch party which is one of the issues with brexit. They can’t agree on what is best for the economy because you have people such as David Gauke pushing for trade flow for the economy as well as boris who is looking at crashing out
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Wired_1800
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I don't think Boris has any interest in a serious renegotiation and they know it. He is purely for the Tories and within that, a narrow slice of global financier interests and has no concerns over our real economy. If you take the motor industry as an example, it relies on immense just in time flows of goods through the ports - even small interruptions can result in mass layoffs. That's a million jobs. The backstop was needed because we had to stay in the CU to make that kind of thing continue to work.
We can make a good agreement that supports EU and UK economies. The backstop was designed to prevent us from falling off a cliff edge, in the event of No Deal. It was not to keep us locked in with the EU.

Boris Johnson did in few weeks what Theresa May could not achieve in 3 years.

I understand your concerns and I am worried too. No sane person wont have slight doubt about the future. However, we have to make a decision. Uncertainty is killing our economy and many experts have made similar conclusions including the CBI. We are either in or out, we could not afford more months of uncertainty. The domestic agenda has been frozen since 2016 for Brexit.

I really hope that you come around to accept that we have to support the UK. It is not the best outcome at the moment but we have to unite and try to get a good outcome from the EU. EU has capitalised on our division and used it against us for years.
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Billy345
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#80
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#80
(Original post by Wired_1800)
We can make a good agreement that supports EU and UK economies. The backstop was designed to prevent us from falling off a cliff edge, in the event of No Deal. It was not to keep us locked in with the EU.

Boris Johnson did in few weeks what Theresa May could not achieve in 3 years.

I understand your concerns and I am worried too. No sane person wont have slight doubt about the future. However, we have to make a decision. Uncertainty is killing our economy and many experts have made similar conclusions including the CBI. We are either in or out, we could not afford more months of uncertainty. The domestic agenda has been frozen since 2016 for Brexit.

I really hope that you come around to accept that we have to support the UK. It is not the best outcome at the moment but we have to unite and try to get a good outcome from the EU. EU has capitalised on our division and used it against us for years.
i don't think France or Ireland would back any deal that doesn't have the backstop because it is too important to them that trade across to Ireland and then into France isn't interrupted
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