British Muslims: 'You are lazy if you say extremism is not Islamic'

Um, it well may be that 'everyone's morals are different', but we can all agree that condemning the behavior of Jihadists is good if it reduces Jihadist activity.

Perhaps more contentious is whether we can agree that the Islamic community distancing itself from Jihadism/Islamic Extremism is morally good, but I don't see why it shouldn't be? Certainly there would be nothing bad about it, it would make a lot of people more happy and comfortable, and it would be a good thing because it would be a display of solidarity against extremism - which is in itself good.

Why don't we focus our time on trying to find another solution, tensions between communities are bad enough as it is

Because the only possible downside to this solution is if the Islamic community feels uncomfortable criticizing Islamic terrorism, and consequently either there's no reason to look for another solution first, unless the Islamic community is uncomfortable with rejecting terrorism.

Exactly who should condemn it? Religious leaders or any religious believer?

It would be constructive if religious leaders condemned it, it would be constructive is religious believers condemned it, it would be even more constructive if both condemned it.

Note well that I did not say that they 'should' condemn it, nor have I ever said that. In fact, I think you're quite well aware that I've never suggested any element of obligation on the Muslim community in anything I've said, and I hope that anybdy reading that recognizes this too. All I have said, unapologetically, is that it would be a very good thing for members of the Islamic community, any and all members, to actively and vocally reject Islamic extremism.

Isn't this true? Are you denying this?

I think religious leaders then yes but not random muslims

What would be bad about random Muslims condemning Islamic terrorism?

Because that could lead to people in the street going up to them and confronting them, some of my friends already feel uneasy with everyone staring at them and making comments

What in the world makes you think that, if random Muslims vocally condemned Islamic terrorism, people would go up to them and confront them? If anything, surely it would make that less likely, because those who (of course unreasonably) act prejudicially toward individual Muslims would have the feeling that there was sympathy from the Islamic community towards terrorism, would have that belief undermined?

This is just not a good reason.

Past experience of saying something and then people coming up to me to talk about it.

Anecdotal experience isn't really a great guide to the likelihood that this would actually happen to many people.

Nonetheless, I do wonder what problem you really have with people asking you about it? That seems like a good thing really, doesn't it suggest that aggression towards Muslims is to be replaced by understanding, if your case reflects what would generally happen?

I think we should focus on educating everyone about other cultures rather than people jumping to conclusions based on the media

What has that got to do with being 'lazy'?

Okay, you've just totally removed yourself from the conversation now.

The problem isn't, primarily, people 'jumping to conclusions based on the media' - the problem is that people assume any criticism of Islam or the actions of the Muslim community in general is based in racism.

If you really want to popularize racism, the way to go about doing it is to conflate people like me, who suggest that it would be good for the Islamic community actually to vocally condemn terrorism, with actual racists, because it will only give the latter group credibility.

snip

Who do you think is out there on the ground fighting these extremists and having the heaviest losses? Muslims.

The truth is however that the Western nations (America's little whores including the UK) are allowing these rebel groups to come into existence by toppling stable governments and supporting these crazy rebel groups.


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there is a problem with the media, all of this islamic terrorism news is making people jump to irrational conclusions and no I don't believe that criticising terrorism is racism, I feel that we should be taught about other cultures and religions and then people can see the difference between the religion and the extremists.

Why bother asking them to condemn it ?

The extremists interpretation of the Quran and Hadiths is perhaps a more plausible understanding, most Muslims either subscribe to that interpretation or have no solid scriptural rebut.

You see Muslims like Resa Aslan (or that girl you are talking to) play apologetic acrobatics as they go off into some tangent about the underlying message and contextual understanding of blah blah blah. And they waffle on about things with no substance........ the Quran simply calls for the death and subjugation of non-Muslims, and Muslims teach it to their children.

The Muslim community is hugely vocal and unified whenever something negative is said about their faith or it is criticised, you would think that people propagating a supposedly bastardised interpretation of it so as to have their children literally become apostates and kill themselves whilst raping/enslaving/committing genocide would have them going apeshlt...........strangely, there is silence.

You don't even think thats sad?

Pretty much this. You want random civilians to apologise for or "condemn" what someone else does, especially when they are mostly killing Muslims. They only want us to speak out about extremism when the victims are non-muslim yet don't give a damn about us apologising when Muslims are the victims.