Does Dairy affect skin?
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Original post by hezzlington
It's not pointless if there are uniformed individuals reading who can learn something from potential debate.
Original post by Craghyrax
We're totally going to have a pointless rant in here about whether or not hormones in milk are a problem, aren't we? 
Aside from hormones, caseine and lactose are both known allergens. That's not something that there's any scientific disagreement about. For the purpose of the OP's needs... which aren't to settle the specifics of some obscure nutrition debate, but rather to work out whether her specific body responds to dairy... all of that is rather unecessary.
Aside from hormones, caseine and lactose are both known allergens. That's not something that there's any scientific disagreement about. For the purpose of the OP's needs... which aren't to settle the specifics of some obscure nutrition debate, but rather to work out whether her specific body responds to dairy... all of that is rather unecessary.
This is horribly wrong in so many ways. lactose is NOT an allergen for a start.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Reality Check
This is horribly wrong in so many ways. lactose is NOT an allergen for a start.
Maybe 'allergen' wasn't the right word, but it's accepted that there are differences in humans' ability to digest lactose... The same is true dairy proteins, whey and casein.
@emerald7770 I like the blog Mark's Daily Apple, because the author cites his sources, and always points to the academic research underpinning his claims. As the others say, you need to make up your own mind and be critical, but here is a good overview from his blog of the different kinds of difficulties that people can experience from dairy, how to diagnose them, and what the science behind it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-intolerance-what-it-is-and-how-to-determine-if-you-have-it/
I've looked at a few NHS sources for problems related to cows milk. Most are guides aimed at breast feeding children, but all of them also accept that people can have allergies to proteins in milk, and that people can have intolerances to lactose. E.g.: http://www.hartlepoolandstocktonccg.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/4.3-Baby-Milk-All.pdf
FWIW your ethnicity is also relevant. Some ethnicities are less adapted to milk digestion than others are.
I've looked at a few NHS sources for problems related to cows milk. Most are guides aimed at breast feeding children, but all of them also accept that people can have allergies to proteins in milk, and that people can have intolerances to lactose. E.g.: http://www.hartlepoolandstocktonccg.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/4.3-Baby-Milk-All.pdf
FWIW your ethnicity is also relevant. Some ethnicities are less adapted to milk digestion than others are.
Original post by Craghyrax
@emerald7770 I like the blog Mark's Daily Apple, because the author cites his sources, and always points to the academic research underpinning his claims. As the others say, you need to make up your own mind and be critical, but here is a good overview from his blog of the different kinds of difficulties that people can experience from dairy, how to diagnose them, and what the science behind it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-intolerance-what-it-is-and-how-to-determine-if-you-have-it/
I've looked at a few NHS sources for problems related to cows milk. Most are guides aimed at breast feeding children, but all of them also accept that people can have allergies to proteins in milk, and that people can have intolerances to lactose. E.g.: http://www.hartlepoolandstocktonccg.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/4.3-Baby-Milk-All.pdf
FWIW your ethnicity is also relevant. Some ethnicities are less adapted to milk digestion than others are.
I've looked at a few NHS sources for problems related to cows milk. Most are guides aimed at breast feeding children, but all of them also accept that people can have allergies to proteins in milk, and that people can have intolerances to lactose. E.g.: http://www.hartlepoolandstocktonccg.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/4.3-Baby-Milk-All.pdf
FWIW your ethnicity is also relevant. Some ethnicities are less adapted to milk digestion than others are.
omg no please not marks daily apple.
no. please.
Paleo or 'primal' activists like Mark are snake oil salesman. They sell products. Pretty much all of these guys like Dr Mercola do.
I've got a copy of PB and even two of his cookbooks. He does indeed cite academic papers/articles, but then so do creationists. Anybody can misinterpret or deliberately misinform it's readers by citing research, as long as it looks legit...it's believable.
The whole notion of the paleo diet has been widely debunked by the top nutritionists.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Craghyrax
@emerald7770 I like the blog Mark's Daily Apple, because the author cites his sources, and always points to the academic research underpinning his claims. As the others say, you need to make up your own mind and be critical, but here is a good overview from his blog of the different kinds of difficulties that people can experience from dairy, how to diagnose them, and what the science behind it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-intolerance-what-it-is-and-how-to-determine-if-you-have-it/
I've looked at a few NHS sources for problems related to cows milk. Most are guides aimed at breast feeding children, but all of them also accept that people can have allergies to proteins in milk, and that people can have intolerances to lactose. E.g.: http://www.hartlepoolandstocktonccg.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/4.3-Baby-Milk-All.pdf
FWIW your ethnicity is also relevant. Some ethnicities are less adapted to milk digestion than others are.
I've looked at a few NHS sources for problems related to cows milk. Most are guides aimed at breast feeding children, but all of them also accept that people can have allergies to proteins in milk, and that people can have intolerances to lactose. E.g.: http://www.hartlepoolandstocktonccg.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/4.3-Baby-Milk-All.pdf
FWIW your ethnicity is also relevant. Some ethnicities are less adapted to milk digestion than others are.
I don't know if my ethnicity is but we do drink any tea a lot so idk. I know i don't have any allegries. I drink milk 24/7 so i would've been dead rn. And i dont breastfeed anyone lol so its all good?
Original post by hezzlington
He does indeed cite academic papers/articles, but then so do creationists. Anybody can misinterpret or deliberately misinform it's readers by citing research, as long as it looks legit...it's believable.
Well instead of deciding that everything everybody supporting paleo thinks is 100% wrong, why not have a look at that particular blog entry and see for yourself whether the information he shared in it is wrong. If it isn't, then there isn't any problem. And if he does cite research, which he does... and if you check what the research is (and I do) then you can decide for yourself what about it is useful or not useful. It's very lazy thinking... and also very unscientific thinking... to go "x thing is associated with y huge general movement/ideology/category that I dislike, so I'm going to automatically decide it's rubbish". Things have to be considered on a case by case basis. And in this case the particular article by Mark matched up with what the NHS says. Which is not surprising because... I repeat... the fact that some humans have issues digesting some things in milk is widely recognised. Whether the OP digests her lactose, casein and whey without issues is something that none of us are going to be able to judge in advance. She has to work it out for herself, with the help of a doctor, and - if she likes - by observing her own symptoms on and off of dairy.
Whether or not the paleo movement is wrong or right, at the end of the day what they advocate is staying away from processed refined foods, eating tons of nutritious real food and going easy on the sugar. That's pretty much what every diet/nutritional philosophy comes down to.
I think the TSR health/fitness clique tend to be very narrow-minded and reactionary about it all.
Anyway, I have to go. Have a nice evening.
(edited 7 years ago)
@Craghyrax
Your posts cause me concern.
The OP asked whether dairy causes spots. This is a well worn cliché with no scientific evidence to back it up. You've then gone on to post this:
This contains some basic scientific errors - lactose is not an allergen, and the incidence of true allergy (rather than the perception of allergy/intolerance) to milk proteins is extremely low in the non-paediatric population*. However, you've gone on to make an association between the OP's question about milk causing spots and the the possible allergenic nature of caseine (sic.) and lactose. To be fair, you've gone on to sort-of accept that you 'might have' used the wrong word rather casually. Whether or not something is an allergen is rather an important distinction, and you've been rather casual with this. I wonder whether you'd be as casual if someone got Schmitt and Hayek mixed up.. Even worse, you've then gone on to cite a rather poor personal blog and a fad diet as possibly useful to the OP for answering the question 'does milk cause spots'.
I find this incredible given your academic training and current work as a researcher. If anyone knows the importance of verifiability and peer review regarding sources, it should be you. The OP should be being directed towards those sources which are credible, such as the NHS, PHE, NHS Evidence, government agency websites and the like - not some blogger and fat diet!
I also feel you have to be held to a rather higher standard because of your ST position on TSR. Many users will see your ST status as something of a badge of honour, and your word may well carry more weight than a standard user's would. Surely it is incumbent on you, therefore, to ensure you are giving out accurate and appropriate advice and guidance so the OP can best be helped. If we're going to suggest blogs and fads as possible solutions to problems, what's the point of it all?
I'm sorry to have to be blunt with you, but I have read too many posts from you which contain inaccurate and/or misleading information regarding health and diet. I see in another post (In the thread 'what's your favourite condiment' you've made an entirely spurious and inaccurate claim that vegetable oils cause 'a ton of health issues' because they cause inflammation:
We all have specialist areas of expertise and concern - having looked at your profile page, clearly yours is in the social and political sciences and I think we are all grateful to have such an accomplished expert in this field as an active user on TSR. We are also lucky to have many other active users accomplished in the fields of science and medicine.
* [see Fiocchi, A., Brozek, J., Schünemann, H., Bahna, S. L., von Berg, A., Beyer, K., … Vieths, S. (2010). World Allergy Organization (WAO) Diagnosis and Rationale for Action against Cow’s Milk Allergy (DRACMA) Guidelines. The World Allergy Organization Journal, 3(4), 57–161. http://doi.org/10.1097/WOX.0b013e3181defeb9]
Your posts cause me concern.
The OP asked whether dairy causes spots. This is a well worn cliché with no scientific evidence to back it up. You've then gone on to post this:
Original post by Craghyrax
We're totally going to have a pointless rant in here about whether or not hormones in milk are a problem, aren't we? Aside from hormones, caseine and lactose are both known allergens. That's not something that there's any scientific disagreement about. For the purpose of the OP's needs... which aren't to settle the specifics of some obscure nutrition debate, but rather to work out whether her specific body responds to dairy... all of that is rather unecessary.
This contains some basic scientific errors - lactose is not an allergen, and the incidence of true allergy (rather than the perception of allergy/intolerance) to milk proteins is extremely low in the non-paediatric population*. However, you've gone on to make an association between the OP's question about milk causing spots and the the possible allergenic nature of caseine (sic.) and lactose. To be fair, you've gone on to sort-of accept that you 'might have' used the wrong word rather casually. Whether or not something is an allergen is rather an important distinction, and you've been rather casual with this. I wonder whether you'd be as casual if someone got Schmitt and Hayek mixed up.. Even worse, you've then gone on to cite a rather poor personal blog and a fad diet as possibly useful to the OP for answering the question 'does milk cause spots'.
I find this incredible given your academic training and current work as a researcher. If anyone knows the importance of verifiability and peer review regarding sources, it should be you. The OP should be being directed towards those sources which are credible, such as the NHS, PHE, NHS Evidence, government agency websites and the like - not some blogger and fat diet!
I also feel you have to be held to a rather higher standard because of your ST position on TSR. Many users will see your ST status as something of a badge of honour, and your word may well carry more weight than a standard user's would. Surely it is incumbent on you, therefore, to ensure you are giving out accurate and appropriate advice and guidance so the OP can best be helped. If we're going to suggest blogs and fads as possible solutions to problems, what's the point of it all?
I'm sorry to have to be blunt with you, but I have read too many posts from you which contain inaccurate and/or misleading information regarding health and diet. I see in another post (In the thread 'what's your favourite condiment' you've made an entirely spurious and inaccurate claim that vegetable oils cause 'a ton of health issues' because they cause inflammation:
Original post by Craghyrax
I don't eat any of those. I would like to make my own coleslaw with home made mayonnaise, because store bought mayonnaise is made with vegetable oils that are major contributor to inflammation (and a ton of health issues).
We all have specialist areas of expertise and concern - having looked at your profile page, clearly yours is in the social and political sciences and I think we are all grateful to have such an accomplished expert in this field as an active user on TSR. We are also lucky to have many other active users accomplished in the fields of science and medicine.
* [see Fiocchi, A., Brozek, J., Schünemann, H., Bahna, S. L., von Berg, A., Beyer, K., … Vieths, S. (2010). World Allergy Organization (WAO) Diagnosis and Rationale for Action against Cow’s Milk Allergy (DRACMA) Guidelines. The World Allergy Organization Journal, 3(4), 57–161. http://doi.org/10.1097/WOX.0b013e3181defeb9]
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by emerald7770
Cause spots?
Those who eat a lot of fat in their diet and are genetically predisposed to getting acne, get more acne than the average person. If you eat a **** tonne of dairy; then maybe reducing intake to what would be considered normal, might help improve your skin. If you eat a regular amount of dairy, eliminating dairy is of no benefit to you.
Making sure you clean your face twice a day with warm water and making sure your face is clean and other such measures are of the greatest benefit. If you're worried you should go to your GP
Original post by emerald7770
Okay is this scientific enough?
Most of the cows used in farming are actually pregnant cows. The hormones such as progesterone and insulin growth factors make their way into the milk, when we consume the milk, it leads to increased levels of inflammation, skin breakdown, aging and acne in many people.
Most of the cows used in farming are actually pregnant cows. The hormones such as progesterone and insulin growth factors make their way into the milk, when we consume the milk, it leads to increased levels of inflammation, skin breakdown, aging and acne in many people.
In raw milk progesterone and other hormones are found in milk yes. However, you more than likely drink pasteurised milk, this denatures the proteins in the milk as well as killing the majority of bacteria meaning any hormones in there non-functional. Furthermore if you drink raw milk, hormones in and all; you have a stomach at pH 2; this also denatures all the proteins in the milk and makes them entirely non-functional
Original post by Craghyrax
We're totally going to have a pointless rant in here about whether or not hormones in milk are a problem, aren't we?
Aside from hormones, caseine and lactose are both known allergens. That's not something that there's any scientific disagreement about. For the purpose of the OP's needs... which aren't to settle the specifics of some obscure nutrition debate, but rather to work out whether her specific body responds to dairy... all of that is rather unecessary.
Aside from hormones, caseine and lactose are both known allergens. That's not something that there's any scientific disagreement about. For the purpose of the OP's needs... which aren't to settle the specifics of some obscure nutrition debate, but rather to work out whether her specific body responds to dairy... all of that is rather unecessary.
There are extremely rare examples of allergies to milk products such as lactose and casein; these present with signs of anaphylaxis. Intolerance to lactose does not present with skin lesions, rather diarrhoea, flatulence and stomach pains.
Furthermore paleo is debunked, it does not promote a healthy lifestyle and promotes a lie regarding what prehistoric man ate.
Prehistoric man ate cereals and grains from just about as long as we have exsited, we have evolved to be the masters of all trades of possible foods; from milk to grains.
Also tequila is paleo but wheat is not; go figure
Original post by Angry cucumber
Those who eat a lot of fat in their diet and are genetically predisposed to getting acne, get more acne than the average person. If you eat a **** tonne of dairy; then maybe reducing intake to what would be considered normal, might help improve your skin. If you eat a regular amount of dairy, eliminating dairy is of no benefit to you.
Making sure you clean your face twice a day with warm water and making sure your face is clean and other such measures are of the greatest benefit. If you're worried you should go to your GP
In raw milk progesterone and other hormones are found in milk yes. However, you more than likely drink pasteurised milk, this denatures the proteins in the milk as well as killing the majority of bacteria meaning any hormones in there non-functional. Furthermore if you drink raw milk, hormones in and all; you have a stomach at pH 2; this also denatures all the proteins in the milk and makes them entirely non-functional
There are extremely rare examples of allergies to milk products such as lactose and casein; these present with signs of anaphylaxis. Intolerance to lactose does not present with skin lesions, rather diarrhoea, flatulence and stomach pains.
Furthermore paleo is debunked, it does not promote a healthy lifestyle and promotes a lie regarding what prehistoric man ate.
Prehistoric man ate cereals and grains from just about as long as we have exsited, we have evolved to be the masters of all trades of possible foods; from milk to grains.
Also tequila is paleo but wheat is not; go figure
Making sure you clean your face twice a day with warm water and making sure your face is clean and other such measures are of the greatest benefit. If you're worried you should go to your GP
In raw milk progesterone and other hormones are found in milk yes. However, you more than likely drink pasteurised milk, this denatures the proteins in the milk as well as killing the majority of bacteria meaning any hormones in there non-functional. Furthermore if you drink raw milk, hormones in and all; you have a stomach at pH 2; this also denatures all the proteins in the milk and makes them entirely non-functional
There are extremely rare examples of allergies to milk products such as lactose and casein; these present with signs of anaphylaxis. Intolerance to lactose does not present with skin lesions, rather diarrhoea, flatulence and stomach pains.
Furthermore paleo is debunked, it does not promote a healthy lifestyle and promotes a lie regarding what prehistoric man ate.
Prehistoric man ate cereals and grains from just about as long as we have exsited, we have evolved to be the masters of all trades of possible foods; from milk to grains.
Also tequila is paleo but wheat is not; go figure
I see why she mentioned you, great information!1!1! thanks ever so much
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