Anti vaccine

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Hannah.Cook
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I do not wish to get any further vaccines. At the same time I am not saying that vaccines aren't effective or any of that. I understand that vaccines are for our own safety. But is there any way, IF a vaccine (for example the covid vaccine) gets compulsory, to avoid it? I don't have allergies to ingredients of a vaccine or anything like that. But can I get an anti vax card or something of that sort that prevents me from getting future vaccines and makes it my sole wish if I want it?

Volunteer Note: For advice, guidance and up-to-date information on Coronavirus/COVID-19, please check out the NHS, UK Government, and Mind (mental health) web-pages.
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mnot
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(Original post by Hannah.Cook)
I do not wish to get any further vaccines. At the same time I am not saying that vaccines aren't effective or any of that. I understand that vaccines are for our own safety. But is there any way, IF a vaccine (for example the covid vaccine) gets compulsory, to avoid it? I don't have allergies to ingredients of a vaccine or anything like that. But can I get an anti vax card or something of that sort that prevents me from getting future vaccines and makes it my sole wish if I want it?
They've already said its not compulsory. But if you could get a lanyard identifying this or something just so people know your an absolute melon it would help the rest of society avoid you.
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nexttime
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It is not compulsory and it never will be. It'd be a huge attack on our rights as individuals.

But yes as above - vaccines have/had eliminated polio, smallpox, measles, etc, and will get us out of covid lockdowns, but if you want to declare to everyone who sees you how anti-vax you are a big 'Dunce' on a white cone hat will suffice.
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glassalice
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You probably want the vaccine to be made compulsory.
Panic fetish.
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persephone_
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Nobody is going to vaccinate you without your consent. Your post reads like you just want to start a vaccine argument by making such a point of not wanting to have it yourself. I'd be surprised if you really thought you would be forced; there may well be requirements for it for travel in future the way there already are for many travel related immunisations, but that's as far as it will go.
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mnot
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(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
Your comment there is ignorant, uneducated and lacks logic.

The vaccines are NOT proven to prevent transmission of the virus. That was categorically stated to everyone by the Chief Medical Officer in a live Coronavirus briefing on the BBC. I can provide the source to the briefing if you need it. On that basis the people being vaccinated are just as much a risk to others as those not being vaccinated. The vaccines protect the person being vaccinated, no-one else at this point.

Your comment lacks basic logic and reasoning because you make the suggestion that you want or need to avoid those people who choose not to be vaccinated. Surely if you have been vaccinated, and you believe the Pharma spiel about the vaccine's efficacy, then you are protected right?
If not then you foolishly injected your body with god knows what, and you're still not protected from Covid, that would be an extremely dumb thing to do imo.

So either you believe in the vaccine or you don't. If you do believe in it then you should not need to shun anyone in society.

When you do the research into vaccines you actually find that the situation is completely the other way around. In some case it is the unvaccinated people who need to avoid the vaccinated because they can and do spread virus and disease to others.

In the case of Flu Vaccines the study below found that those people who got vaccinated actually spread Flu to others up to 6 times more than those people who were not vaccinated. Thus actually it's the Sheeple who haven't done their research and who buy into the deliberate Campaigns Of Fear used to sell vaccines and drugs that need to be avoided.

https://www.pnas.org/content/115/5/1081


The MODERNA vaccine has just been authorised for use.

It's very much worth reading the results of the Phase 3 trial here:

Efficacy and Safety of the mRNA-1273 SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2035389


It states that :

"Solicited systemic adverse events occurred more often in the mRNA-1273 group than in the placebo group after both the first dose (54.9%, vs. 42.2%) and the second dose (79.4%, vs. 36.5%). "

"The severity of the solicited systemic events increased after the second dose in the mRNA-1273 group, with an increase in proportions of grade 2 events (from 16.5% after the first dose to 38.1% after the second dose) and grade 3 events (from 2.9% to 15.8%). "


That's 15.8% Grade 3 adverse events. What does that mean? Here are the grading definitions:

Grade 1 - Mild; asymptomatic or mild symptoms; clinical or diagnostic observations only; intervention not indicated
Grade 2 - Moderate; minimal, local, or non-invasive intervention indicated; limiting age-appropriate instrumental ADLa
Grade 3 - Severe or medically significant but not immediately life-threatening; hospitalization or prolongation of hospitalization indicated; disabling; limiting self-care ADLb
Grade 4 - Life-threatening consequences; urgent intervention indicated
Grade 5 - Death related to adverse event

https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/ar...11304/tables/2


So Grade 3's can leave you with disabilities and conditions that limit your ability to look after yourself.

This is imo quite concerning. 15.8% is a high number imo.

It's 1.6 people in every 10 vaccinated

By all means if you fancy rolling that die go ahead and get your shot.

For myself, no thanks, no way Jose. It's lunacy.

Note too that in the Moderna trial (and the Pfizer trial) only TINY numbers of people actually got Covid at all.

In the Moderna trial there were 15,210 people in the placebo group and 15,210 in the vaccine group.

The placebo group only saw 185 cases of Covid illness. Just 185 !!! That's an instance of just 1.2%

That means they had a 98.8% chance of not getting Covid from the get go. Great odds !!!!

The vaccinated group saw 11 cases which means they saw a 0.07% instance.

So the difference in instance of Covid between not having the vaccine and having it was just 1.13%


I ask myself, do I want to risk a 15.8% chance of getting a life changing Grade 3 side effect from a vaccine in order to reduce my chances of getting Covid illness by just 1.13%? And the answer comes back a resounding NOOOOOOOOO !
Take the day off.

The paper about those with a vaccine being more infectious is for a different virus normal influenza not covid, the data in that paper isnt even confirmed in and based on the abstract most of the data seems to be looking at where in the upper or lower airways influenza infects humans, comparing vaccine infectivity isnt even a primary aim of the paper (I stopped reading after the abstract, the declaration and significance) This paper isnt related to covid, its not really relevant and even the papers author says it requires more work to confirm any findings from the results...

Grade 3 reaction is basically redness/rash on the arm of the injection and it caused some discomfort. (this is basically people who had a rash and decided to take a paracetamol). Even in the paper the worst effected (those 15.6% on second dose) of the moderna vaccine had symptoms of an average 2.6-3.1 days. So your point is 15% of people will have a rash and a sore arm for 3 days after the second dose. On balance that seems worth it given the worst effected of covid die and many have severe symptoms for weeks.

Yes, the clinical effectiveness to prevent transmission has not been shown with the RNA vaccines, it also hasnt yet been clinically tested they were focusing on ability to provide an immune response but one imagines that someone is probably less likely to spread it if their immune system responds more rapidly and they are arent coughing (although i must admit I have no expertise in virology). Nevertheless the Oxford vaccine is the main rollout for the UK and that has preliminary data which shows it can provide a response to prevent transmission.

Your numbers about not getting covid and being safer not taking the vaccine are clearly flawed as the trial was over a population subset and limited time horizon and you've manipulated the percentage comparisons, your not even comparing the respective comparable rates between the 2 percentages your doing the net comparison of 2 subsets which as I say is flawed due to the fact its trial and not representative of a non time limited case.

But sure go ahead and try and manipulate information to make a vaccine seem dangerous. When its clearly the solution, ill continue to take my cue on the response by looking at the information put out by respected virologists and healthcare clinical researchers.
Last edited by mnot; 6 months ago
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nexttime
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(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
Your comment there is ignorant, uneducated and lacks logic.

The vaccines are NOT proven to prevent transmission of the virus. That was categorically stated to everyone by the Chief Medical Officer in a live Coronavirus briefing on the BBC. I can provide the source to the briefing if you need it. On that basis the people being vaccinated are just as much a risk to others as those not being vaccinated. The vaccines protect the person being vaccinated, no-one else at this point.

Your comment lacks basic logic and reasoning because you make the suggestion that you want or need to avoid those people who choose not to be vaccinated. Surely if you have been vaccinated, and you believe the Pharma spiel about the vaccine's efficacy, then you are protected right?
If not then you foolishly injected your body with god knows what, and you're still not protected from Covid, that would be an extremely dumb thing to do imo.

So either you believe in the vaccine or you don't. If you do believe in it then you should not need to shun anyone in society.

When you do the research into vaccines you actually find that the situation is completely the other way around. In some case it is the unvaccinated people who need to avoid the vaccinated because they can and do spread virus and disease to others.

In the case of Flu Vaccines the study below found that those people who got vaccinated actually spread Flu to others up to 6 times more than those people who were not vaccinated. Thus actually it's the Sheeple who haven't done their research and who buy into the deliberate Campaigns Of Fear used to sell vaccines and drugs that need to be avoided.

https://www.pnas.org/content/115/5/1081


The MODERNA vaccine has just been authorised for use.

It's very much worth reading the results of the Phase 3 trial here:

Efficacy and Safety of the mRNA-1273 SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2035389


It states that :

"Solicited systemic adverse events occurred more often in the mRNA-1273 group than in the placebo group after both the first dose (54.9%, vs. 42.2%) and the second dose (79.4%, vs. 36.5%). "

"The severity of the solicited systemic events increased after the second dose in the mRNA-1273 group, with an increase in proportions of grade 2 events (from 16.5% after the first dose to 38.1% after the second dose) and grade 3 events (from 2.9% to 15.8%). "


That's 15.8% Grade 3 adverse events. What does that mean? Here are the grading definitions:

Grade 1 - Mild; asymptomatic or mild symptoms; clinical or diagnostic observations only; intervention not indicated
Grade 2 - Moderate; minimal, local, or non-invasive intervention indicated; limiting age-appropriate instrumental ADLa
Grade 3 - Severe or medically significant but not immediately life-threatening; hospitalization or prolongation of hospitalization indicated; disabling; limiting self-care ADLb
Grade 4 - Life-threatening consequences; urgent intervention indicated
Grade 5 - Death related to adverse event

https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/ar...11304/tables/2
Just to confirm for anyone reading - this is all false. The grading system used in that article is immunogenicity grading and in that grade 3 = needed to use paracetamol.

I'd expected the vaccine to be safe and effective from media reports, but this data is really quite amazing. One of the massive positives to come from covid, is just how successful the vaccines have been and how safe this technology seems to be. Highly impressive.

1% developed covid on the trial, but its estimated 5% of London has covid right now alone. Even if you care little for your own safety, the anticipated benefit of this vaccine is that lockdown can end. A worthy aim, if you ask... well anyone apart from this user, I guess.
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aurora1025
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(Original post by Hannah.Cook)
I do not wish to get any further vaccines. At the same time I am not saying that vaccines aren't effective or any of that. I understand that vaccines are for our own safety. But is there any way, IF a vaccine (for example the covid vaccine) gets compulsory, to avoid it? I don't have allergies to ingredients of a vaccine or anything like that. But can I get an anti vax card or something of that sort that prevents me from getting future vaccines and makes it my sole wish if I want it?

Volunteer Note: For advice, guidance and up-to-date information on Coronavirus/COVID-19, please check out the NHS, UK Government, and Mind (mental health) web-pages.
idiots like you encourage my elderly father to believe stupid **** like this and probably die an earlier death
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Anonymous #1
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I don't know why the OP is getting hammered here I am not having the vaccine either
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