Girls, would you EVER date a foreign man?

Rational? Deluded sweetheart, you're being delusional
It's okay, all the insecure girls are affected by it so you're not alone

What do you mean know very little about? What more do you need to know about a person's appearance after seeing photos? I know as much as I possibly need to know to judge that you're not good looking (ugly is such a....harsh word ).

You should be consumed by self-hatred though, you so should. It's progressive thinking, because it means you no longer accept your flaws in thinking you're good and instead actually do something to make it better. I'm being helpful

The point is that you're going out of your way to try and put down someone who you have no reason to dislike. Unless you base your opinion of someone purely on their appearance; in which case, I feel for you. Unluckily for you, I'm more resilient than you'd been hoping for and I don't react in the desired way to bullies.

Oh now now, why so bashful all of a sudden? You had no qualms with calling me hideous a moment ago. No need to be shy. Please, don't hold back.

So, because I'm not a vision of perfect beauty, I should be reduced to self-hatred? Honey, maybe attractiveness is all-important to you, but I have bigger concerns in life.

Yeah you're right!
I sincerely apologise, genuinely sorry. I'm sure you didn't take my comments to heart but even so I hope you didn't take them seriously I'm just in a funny mood.

You're not hideous or anything like that, you actually have a defined bone structure that highlight your cheeks in a model-esque way

Sorry!

I thought usually men tend to initiate dates/relationships with women rather than the other way round - so wouldn't it be odd for an Asian/African male to want to date a British woman who happened to be unattractive? I was under the impression that the Asian/African male would face more stigma than the British female since he would then firstly be ridiculed for dating an unattractive woman but secondly also for not applying for citizenship through conventional means and thirdly for feeling a need to circumvent the system as such. What is the order of the social scale (including all broader ethnic groups - so European, Arabian, Oriental, Subcontinental, Subsaharan African etc.)? I'm assuming that British males are at the top. Also, in the past Asian/African males were viewed as racially inferior and less intelligent, athletic and hardworking with quite ugly and intimidating features so could it be that many elements of this belief system persist amongst many British women?

What I don't get is why people would laugh at the British woman in question but not laugh more at the Asian/African male. Under current immigration rules, non-EU migrants from Asia/Africa are expected to have more than a threshold net work in their bank accounts and have a certain number of educational qualifications at degree level so I was under the impression that they would not be impoverished (unless they were refugees). I'm not sure about nations outside India, but in India the age of consent for sex is 16 (though in many rural areas this could be violated) - so maybe Asian/African males may not change their behaviour upon arrival in the UK. But part of the citizenship contract in the UK is obviously law-abiding residence and I'm fairly sure in the UK any Asian/African male over 16 who enters into any form of sexual contact with a British female is liable to deportation (and of course, social ostracism).

How come they work in low-paid work if they are Tier 1 and Tier 2 migrants? I was under the impression that most Asian/African male migrants were degreeholders who are specifically screened by the UK Immigration & Nationality Directorate upon entry. Birmingham is the UK's second largest city so I was under the impression that in economic terms it still held more opportunities than nearly all other cities in the UK with the exception of London. I don't think we really have ethnicity-based segregation in London since most migrants are English-speaking and most workplaces will have a mixture of migrant and non-migrant. Wouldn't freshies and non-freshies still meet in social situations like sports clubs, gyms, pubs, bars etc.? What aspects of the accents and clothing of freshies are viewed negatively? Are some accents not understandable to the majority of British women? I haven't really noticed this issue in London but maybe it is different in Birmingham? Also, which clothing types are viewed negatively? For example, I wear a kurta sometimes - could this be seen as intimidating and frightening by British women?

In the examples you gave where disowning can happen - wouldn't the coloured male get more of the blame for being culturally insensitive? For example, could many people feel quite fearful if their daughter/sister/niece happened to date an African/Asian male since there may be many beliefes that coloured males are for example, violent, aggressive, undereducated and uncultured? Do the negative comments tend to come from British males or British females or both? And do they tend to be people who are in their 20s/30s/40s/50s etc. or is it across the whole age spectrum? Do you think it is more acceptable for a white male to date a non-white female (rather than the other way round, which could have connotations of theft).

Also, what are the stereotypes specifically associated with African males? And do you think it might be worthwhile to ensure that Asian/African males are made more aware of the stereotypes surrounding them (upon their arrival) and encouraged to be more culturally sensitive in the presence of British women (i.e. refraining from physical interactions exceeding a handshake).

This is all very interesting since we don't have any vaguely similar stereotypes of British male migrants in Bangalore Are there any positive stereotypes of African/Asian males or are they generally viewed as people to be avoided?

So let me get this straight.

Someone on the internet thinks you're stunning, you accept that opinion and stupidly believe it...but when someone on the internet thinks you're not you dismiss it?

That doesn't sound very rational now, does it?

Aww, justifying yourself by stating you've had numerous offers. I hadn't realised you'd reached that level of desperation, don't be counting your huge list of offers now

Yes, she's too kind...or is she just a very good liar? Meh, still doesn't change your appearance either way.

Why don't you bugger off, you sad little man? Leave her alone, she's obviously happy enough with herself, doesn't need you trying to tell her what she is and isn't, don't see you with a picture up

just don't go around insulting people on an on-line forum for little reason cos it makes you feel big, grow the hell up, make yourself look like less of a tool.

stop bullying me

Could say the same for you.

just don't go around bullying people on an on-line forum for little reason cos it makes you feel big, grow the hell up, make yourself look like less of a tool

Weren't expecting that comeback were you?

No but seriously, I do apologise

I'd hardly say i was bullying you just telling you what a douche you're being when you seemed to have had a very focused intent in pulling the other user down, for what reason? Self gratification? Insecuirty? I don't know, but just don't do it and you'll look less like you're trying to be an internet hardman. Simples.

True, i mean i'm sure that an Asian or African guy who dated an unattractive British woman may get ridicule from their peer group as well-but obviously i don't get to see that side of things.

I'm not really sure about the order of the social scale. Taking away British born people of all ethnicities-i'd say that generally Western European immigrants are on top, and are seen as "most acceptable to date", then Eastern European immigrants and people from the Caribbean, and lastly Sub Saharan Africans and Asians. (i'd say this is from a general White British point of view, i'm sure amongst Black and Asian British people the order may be different-although most Black and Asian friends i have indicate that they would prefer to date/marry someone from their backgrounds who was born here, rather than born abroad.) There isn't too big an Arabian or Chinese community in Birmingham, and the Chinese people that there are tend to be students so i'm not really sure where they would fit in on the scale as they don't come on many people's radars (due to the somewhat insular nature of their community.)

I don't think that the stereotypes of Asian and African men being ugly etc still exist in such a wide spread manner as they used to, and as i said someone from an Asian or African background born in the UK would most likely have no problems with dating White British women-so it's not really a racial thing, but more a cultural one when considering Asian and African men born abroad.

I really don't know about the Tier 1, Tier 2 thing tbh-you're right if what the Government is saying is correct (i.e. they only let in skilled migrants) you would think that most would be in professional jobs. However, i can honestly say that in Birmingham at least, a large proportion of African men are in the service or care industry and a large proportion of Indian/Sub continental men work in restuarants/factories etc and tend to socialise in their own circles from what i've noticed. If you go to a club/bar on Broad Street in Birmingham you will see many British born Asian people, but very rarely have i ever noticed Indian/Sub Continental born people there so i'm not exagerrating when i say that there isn't many chances for "Freshies" and "Non Freshies" to mix. In terms of accents (and i know this is going to sound really hypocritical coming from somebody from Birmingham where we are not exactly known to have good accents) it's just that Indian accents especially are very distinctive and are not exactly viewed as sexy or cool (in the same way that a lot of European or Carribbean accents are) so it's makes some Indian born people a prime target for people taking the piss. Most of the time it's not meant in a malicious or racist way (especially as many times it is an British Asian doing the piss taking) but it does add to the negative stereotypes that some hold about Indian men. I'm not sure what a kurta is, but when i say clothes i mainly mean when Indian guys wear English/Western clothes. Obviously because they are not from here they often don't seem to wear clothes that are considered fashionable in the UK which is why some people think that they can look a bit uncool (only in the same way that if a British person went to live in the USA for example, the Americans would probably think we looked uncool as we're not as exposed to the fashion in the USA as they are.)

The disowning example i gave was when my Nan married my Granddad, and that was in the 1940s lol so times were very different. I doubt most British people would go to the extreme of disowning their children if they married someone of another race anymore, but there are still some people who would have a problem with their children marrying someone from another background (especially if that person was Pakistani-most likely due to the whole "terrorist" stereotype that they have.) It happens more with the older generations (both of the girls i mentioned father's were in their 40s) but the views can sometimes get passed down-for example, after my friends dad told her not to date the guy with the Pakistani background she's never really showed any other interest in Asian guys (whether that was directly related to her dad i don't know, although i know after her dad told her not to she said no to the Pakistani guy who asked her out, even though she did like him.)

I'm not really sure which would be more acceptable out of a White man dating a Non White girl or the other way around. I think it's acceptable enough for both really, as i said-no one would bat an eyelid about an interacial relationship in Birmingham at least (although as i mentioned, there can sometimes be stupid comments made) but in both cases, a British man or woman is more likely to date someone from another background who was born in the UK (i.e a Black British, Asian British person) rather than someone from that same background who was born abroad.

I'm not as sure about the stereotypes regarding African males (due to there being far less) but i know that they're not exactly seen as desirable in Birmingham (at least compared to Caribbean men) and i've heard from my friend who works in a club ran by an African man that he can be quite sleezy so i'm not sure if the stereotype about indian and pakistani born guys also applies to African born men.

Because people only get to see one side of Indian born people, there aren't really many positive stereotypes. The best thing i can say is this-do you remember Sree from Big Brother? Unfortunately, a lot of Indian born guys are stereotyped as being a bit like him.
It's not racism, because British Indians are generally seen in a positive light as successful people but for some reason Indian born people aren't. I think that if more British people actually got to talk to Indian people like i am to you, then most of the stereotypes would be destroyed. My Cousin goes to Goa a lot and she has fell in love with india and the indian people (so much so that she married an Indian guy) so it seems that once people get to know Indian people they tend to really like them and appreciate their culture.

Cool. Once again - thanks for the info

So the social hierarchy would be (in descending order):

1. Western European males
2. Eastern European males
3. Carribean males
4=. Subsaharan African/South Asian males?

Also, (maybe there are insufficient numbers) but where do North Americans, Latino males and Antipodeans fit into the hierarchy, or is this uncertain? Tier 1 encompasses highly-skilled professional migrants - maybe the people you are referring to are people who were able to migrate as family members/relatives and access education to a point where a work visa was granted, or reached a level where British citizenship was awarded after 5 years law-abiding residence. Incidentally, for 'care'-related professions, these often require a degree-level qualiication so men involved in this sector may be Tier 1 migrants.

Are there really so few opportunities for interaction beetween African/Asian males and non-African/non-Asian males especially (and possibly females)? I would have thought in many football clubs, parks, gyms etc. many of these people may meet. I'm not sure that clubs are particularly popular with coloured men - often as Freshies/coloured men I guess we often prefer sporting entertainment (especially billiards and snooker, and in my own case videogaming) to socializing in clubs and bars. For many Freshies that sort of noise is only really associated with the din of traffic in a South Asian/West African metropolis and (in my case) it seems fairly difficult to communicate in a club (maybe not so much in a bar) which often means we prefer socializing in a restaurant environment. Do you think Western European males are more used to communicating in clubs and bars than coloured men?

In the case of South Asia there is often interrethnic banter (though it may appear as vilification to non-South Asians), but I think in some cases British-born subcontinentals can be very hostile towards South Asian expatriates (though I can't directly explain why). This tends to be more pronounced amongst British-born subcontinental females rather than males - though that observation is anecdotal. I'm not sure if the same occurs amongst African males and British-born West African peoples. I was also under the impression that most African/Asian males were from nations where English is an official language (and most likely a language of business and regularly used in the workplace) so I thought most would be fluent. Do you think the accent is a barrier to communcation. I am assuming the same is true in the case of African males, but amongst different South Asian ethnic groupings differences in the accented English tend to be discernable (e.g. I could probably distinguish a Malayalee accent from a Punjabi accent and from a Sylheti accent).

This is what a kurta is:


It's not ideal in winter when it is quite cold but I often wear it in summer as do a few other Asian males, and sometimes some African males wear what appears to be a similar garment. Is this considered fashionable/unfashionable in the UK? I think most of my fellow Freshies and often many coloured men are not particularly vigilant in monitoring fashion trends (certainly compared to my white male friends who are MUCH more fashion-conscious than I am - but again this is anecdotal). We tend to wear suit trousers and a shirt for most of the working day and jeans and a jumper in the evenings (or obvoiusly the appropriate sportswear if we're playing sport in the evening). Is this deemed quite banal for men in the UK? What clothing is currently fashionable for males in the UK? At work I have tended to have predominantly male colleagues who wear quite similar clothes so I personally have not faced accusations of being unfashionable so maybe it is not something that is seen as important?

Also, recently many Islamist terrorists have been from West African backgrounds and there are some from Indian backgrounds too and obviously Maoist symathizers and Naxalite terrorists from Eastern India. Does you think this further contributes to the negative reputation of coloured men amongst British women? But are you sure that coloured males are often stereotyped as terrorists (just that the overwhelming majority of people across all ethnic groups don't participate in terrorism). My aunt is South Asian and she is married to a white male (and they are from different countries) so it is fairly acceptable in Bangalore. I would imagine that it's more acceptable for a white male to go out with a coloured female than for a coloured male to go out with a white female, since doesn't the latter have connotations of theft (I'm fairly sure this has been the case since colonial times?). I've obviously heard of Big Brother but I haven't ever watched it apart from some snippets so haven't heard of this Sree guy - what is he like? By the way, Goa is the smallest state in the Indian Union (and only has a population of 1.4 million) so I'm not sure how representative it would be of 'the Indian people'.

So to summarize, African/Asian males are generally stereotyped by British women as:

*culturally ignorant,
*non-integrative/antisocial,
*of poor socio-economic status,
*unfashionable/uncool,
*terrorists/terrorist sympathizers?/violent,
*sleazy/creepy.

Sorry if this sounds ignorant but I was completely unaware of these! (apart from the terrorist thing). In Bangalore, we haven't met sufficient numbers of British women for stereotypes to have developed, though most of the stereotypes surrounding British males are usually quite positive. They tend to be seen as fairly well-educated, creative and articulate. I suppose the only negative ones would be that they are usually too fearful to drive (though this is deemed fully understandable) and sometimes have trouble handling their alcohol.

Do you think it would be worthwhile for African/Asian males to be made more aware of the stereotypes surrounding their character/demeanour upon arrival to the UK so they modulate their behaviour as a result - e.g. were no African/Asian male to initiate romantic contact with a white female, presumably the sleazy/creepy stereotype would disappear. Similarly, were African/Asian males to be encouraged to conduct comprehensive research on British customs, legal practices etc. prior to arrival, they may no longer be stereotyped as culturally ignorant/insensitive. What do you reckon?

Yeah i'd say that's the general order of things. Obviously this isn't scientific but it's what i've noticed. i can't say that there are a massive amount of North Americans, Latinos or Antipodeans in Birmingham so anything i say would be a guess. However, i'd imagine that North American and Austrailian males would be rated quite highly (due to being from rich countries) ,as would Latinos (due to the stereotype they have of being sexy/romantic.)

You're right, a lot of the people i see probably came over as a family member (as they are definitely not working in professional jobs.) There really aren't many opportunities for "Freshies" and Brits (especially White Brits) to mingle unfortunately. I live near an area which is predominately Indian and i do see Indian born men (lol don't ask how but i can 99% of the time tell the difference between a guy born in India and a guy born here from an Indian background) but they normally hang out in their own groups (often with a can of beer from what i've noticed) and tend to speak to each other in their own language so it's unlikely that people from other backgrounds would approach them. It's sad but true that people from different backgrounds tend not to mix in Birmingham (although, as i said before, people born here but from different religions/ethnicities do mix a lot more than those who are from abroad).

I'd say in general that British born men from any background (including Asian) seem quite comfortable with communicating in night clubs, so i don't really think it's a racial thing, more a cultural one. I've noticed more African born guys out clubbing than Indian guys (although they do seem to frequent predominately Black clubs more often than your average night club.) What you wear seems fine, and i don't think people would be put off by your kurta but in Birmingham (and again, i'm just going by what i've seen) a lot of Indian and Pakistani guys just wear clothes that seem a bit "off." It's the same with Polish guys. It's nothing glaringly obvious but, for example, a lot of South Asian born guys seem to wear (especially in the Summer) a kind of brown sandle with their jeans etc. It's just the little things like that which may be fashionable in India but aren't here. As i said though, there's nothing wrong in that because i bet if i went to India, or the USA, or even elsewhere in Europe some staples of English fashion (for example, leggings and Ugg boots) would probably be viewed as unfashionable/weird.

Not all "coloured" men are stereotyped as terrorists. Indians generally aren't (or Africans) but for some reason (and perhaps it wasn't the terrorist thing) there still seems to be a kind of taboo when it comes to White girls (and not only White girls but also Black/Mixed Race and indian) dating British Pakistani guys, which doesn't seem to be present with British Indian or Black British guys. I'm not saying that dating between those groups doesn't happen because it does, (including my Nan and Granddad lol) but i do know of a few girls who would be fine with interacial dating, but would be put off by a British Pakistani, and also of people who wouldn't bat an eyelid at a White girl dating a British Indian or a Black British guy, but would be negative towards her if she were to date a British Pakistani. They do seem to have a bad reputation (at least in Birmingham.)

Sree was in Big Brother a couple of years ago, and he seemed to conform to a lot of stereotypes that people hold about Indian guys-one of the main things was that he was really sleazy and desperate towards one of the girls in there. Obviously all Indian guys aren't like him, but he did have some of the traits which some people do associate with men that are born in India.

Yeah i'd say they are some of stereotypes that people have of Asian and African born men (although the terrorist one isn't really applicable to anyone apart from Pakistani males-even though there are lots of indian Muslims, people tend to associate Indians with the Sikh and Hindu religions.) You say that you don't have these stereotypes of British men in Bangalore, but that's probably because the British men that do immigrate there are probably from a middle class/upper class background, and i doubt that there are anywhere near as many British born men in Bangalore as there are Indian born men in Birmingham. If in the future (and it could easily happen with India's economy going from strength to strength), a lot of British guys from different backgrounds started to immigrate there, negative stereotypes would no doubt start to form as well (just look as the way British people are stereotyped in Spain for example.)

I don't think people see it as an issue if guys from India or Africa initiate romantic contact with White females, but they should just be sure that the girl is at least 16 so i do think that this is something that more guys from there should become aware of, and they should also be told that a lot of young girls may see them as a bit naive and thus use them to buy alcohol, ciggs etc which could get them into trouble.

I hope this hasn't given you a bad impression of British people, because as i said, a lot of the time the negative stereotypes only come from not mixing with others. If people got the opportunity to communicate normally with guys from India more (and not the sleazy ones) then i'm sure there would be better opinions formed. And also, i'm not saying that British people are perfect, because as i said, in countries where large amounts of British people immigrate (e.g. Spain) we probably have worse stereotypes about us than Indian people have about them here.

Probably in private. I mean, maybe i'm being paranoid and maybe people wouldn't do that, although, when British people (especially White girls) date someone from Asia/Africa i've seen them getting laughed at behind their backs-mainly by people saying stuff like she must be desperate etc. You're right about the UK passport thing as well, as a lot of people would probably think i (if i was to date a guy from Asia/Africa) was being used for one (due to so many stories in the press where this has happened) which would make me appear even more desperate.

I'm feeling a bit awkward now, knowing that you're from India as i don't want to offend you (and also want to let you know that this is not my opinion) but in general Freshies (the nickname used in Brum for people from abroad) are stereotyped as being a bit desperate and sleazy, as well as being culturally backwards. Often they are generally seen as losers, and get laughed at due to some of the things they do (sometimes justified as, tbh, a lot of guys from Asia especially do things which aren't really acceptable in this country-especially towards females which does make them come across badly, but other times they're just being laughed at because of the tendancy for people to laugh at people different to themselves.) It doesn't help that a lot of the stereotypes/piss taking of people from Asia/Africa actually comes from British born Asians and Black people so the stereotypes just get passed on to others (White people/girls) who maybe don't know any people from India or Africa to talk to and therefore believe all of the things that get said about them.

Much of the reputation that Indian and African guys get is down to ignorance as a lot of people who believe them haven't met an Asian or African guy properly, and i've noticed your posts on this site and you come across as very intelligent etc so you would dispell a lot of those myths people have about Indian men, but because of a mix of cultural ignorance (and some bad behaviour by guys from these countries-if you were to see how some of the Indian Freshie guys in Birmingham act you would understand) a lot of people believe the stereotypes which is why a girl dating one would get somewhat of a (negative) reputation.

Lol, how would you know what proportion would?

Are the media referring to non-English speaking, non-Commonwealth countries then?

(i.e. everywhere apart from India, Canada, the United States, Bangladesh, Egypt, Australia, Nigeria, Kenya, Cyprus, Zimbabwe, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, South Africa, Ghana, Gibraltar, Guyana, Barbados, Belize, Trinidad, Bahamas, Jamaica etc.)

face social ostracism