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Original post by Clip
But are you a rational person?
Yes.
I realise many people are not rational.
Original post by SophieSmall
Yes.
I realise many people are not rational.
I realise many people are not rational.
But as a rational person, consider the following:
Assume you marry.
Assume you marry someone of at least equal capabilty to yourself.
Assume that this person has a high income - over £200,000 pa.
Assume that the work you do is rewarding financially, but has drawbacks in terms of time, conditions, personalities.
Assuming that you're a graduate, none of these are unreasonable, and is not an uncommon scenario.
Given this, would you continue to work, or would you have a leisurely life if the male partner can adequately more than provide for the both of you?
Given that you are rational.
OP is probably 12
Original post by Clip
But as a rational person, consider the following:
Assume you marry.
Assume you marry someone of at least equal capabilty to yourself.
Assume that this person has a high income - over £200,000 pa.
Assume that the work you do is rewarding financially, but has drawbacks in terms of time, conditions, personalities.
Assuming that you're a graduate, none of these are unreasonable, and is not an uncommon scenario.
Given this, would you continue to work, or would you have a leisurely life if the male partner can adequately more than provide for the both of you?
Given that you are rational.
Assume you marry.
Assume you marry someone of at least equal capabilty to yourself.
Assume that this person has a high income - over £200,000 pa.
Assume that the work you do is rewarding financially, but has drawbacks in terms of time, conditions, personalities.
Assuming that you're a graduate, none of these are unreasonable, and is not an uncommon scenario.
Given this, would you continue to work, or would you have a leisurely life if the male partner can adequately more than provide for the both of you?
Given that you are rational.
I would rather work (I could always get a different job to one that makes me miserable so long as I at least earn enough to support myself should I ever need to), even if my future partner had a **** tonne of cash I would still work because for starters I'd need to have something to do and feel like I am contributing. I also wouldn't want to RELY on my partner, if he bought me nice things great that's nice of him would be very grateful but I wouldn't be okay with choosing to rely on him because I think it is selfish to expect someone to foot the bill for you, regardless of whether they can do it easily or not.
Anyway I'm not a very materialistic person, I don't need much money at all to be happy. I'd be content on 25k a year.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Clip
But as a rational person, consider the following:
Assume you marry.
Assume you marry someone of at least equal capabilty to yourself.
Assume that this person has a high income - over £200,000 pa.
Assume that the work you do is rewarding financially, but has drawbacks in terms of time, conditions, personalities.
Assuming that you're a graduate, none of these are unreasonable, and is not an uncommon scenario.
Given this, would you continue to work, or would you have a leisurely life if the male partner can adequately more than provide for the both of you?
Given that you are rational.
Assume you marry.
Assume you marry someone of at least equal capabilty to yourself.
Assume that this person has a high income - over £200,000 pa.
Assume that the work you do is rewarding financially, but has drawbacks in terms of time, conditions, personalities.
Assuming that you're a graduate, none of these are unreasonable, and is not an uncommon scenario.
Given this, would you continue to work, or would you have a leisurely life if the male partner can adequately more than provide for the both of you?
Given that you are rational.
If you just lie and your laurels and expect someone else to do the work for you and you are not keeping abreast of your own working skills.....
a) you will be worthless in the workplace if you split and suddenly need to be self-sufficient
b)two heads (incomes) are better than one
c) having all that time free and just doing stupid self-indulgent ****? I would feel like a complete waste of space and a non-achieving bum. I have too much pride. Maybe quite a few people would think otherwise though.
That's a rational argument for working in any case, no?
Lol, money is nice but it doesn't mean much and it doesn't necessarily make you happy.
I'd rather marry a poor man who loved me to pieces than a rich man who doesn't have feelings that deep.
I'd rather marry a poor man who loved me to pieces than a rich man who doesn't have feelings that deep.
Original post by Eveiebaby
If you just lie and your laurels and expect someone else to do the work for you and you are not keeping abreast of your own working skills.....
a) you will be worthless in the workplace if you split and suddenly need to be self-sufficient
b)two heads (incomes) are better than one
c) having all that time free and just doing stupid self-indulgent ****? I would feel like a complete waste of space and a non-achieving bum. I have too much pride. Maybe quite a few people would think otherwise though.
That's a rational argument for working in any case, no?
a) you will be worthless in the workplace if you split and suddenly need to be self-sufficient
b)two heads (incomes) are better than one
c) having all that time free and just doing stupid self-indulgent ****? I would feel like a complete waste of space and a non-achieving bum. I have too much pride. Maybe quite a few people would think otherwise though.
That's a rational argument for working in any case, no?
Yeah except most women say the same stuff before they have kids, and then suddenly everything changes. Eg:
according to our survey, 84% of working women told ForbesWoman and TheBump that staying home to raise children is a financial luxury they aspire to.
What’s more, more than one in three resent their partner for not earning enough to make that dream a reality.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/meghancasserly/2012/09/12/is-opting-out-the-new-american-dream-for-working-women/
What’s more, more than one in three resent their partner for not earning enough to make that dream a reality.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/meghancasserly/2012/09/12/is-opting-out-the-new-american-dream-for-working-women/
feminism is hilarious
Original post by poohat
Yeah except most women say the same stuff before they have kids, and then suddenly everything changes. Eg:
feminism is hilarious
feminism is hilarious
Thing is, I already earn what I consider an ok to above ok salary. To give up a career permanently is to a very unwise thing to do because you must be prepared to support yourself no matter what happens.
Nice extrapolation of what I said to wide feminist view (if that even exists). I have nothing to do with that study.
Original post by Eveiebaby
Thing is, I already earn what I consider an ok to above ok salary. To give up a career permanently is to a very unwise thing to do because you must be prepared to support yourself no matter what happens.
If you want to work while having pre-school children, the first £20k (after tax) of whatever you earn will go on childcare. Unless you are making £40-50k gross minimum, you will not be getting any extra money from working.
Even after your children start school, having two full-time workers in the family means that you will need either an au-pair, or an extremely flexible schedule. Neither are cheap. By the time you net things out, you will find that you are barely doing better financially than if you stayed at home.
Nice extrapolation of what I said to wide feminist view (if that even exists). I have nothing to do with that study.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by poohat
If you want to work while having pre-school children, the first £20k (after tax) of whatever you earn will go on childcare. Unless you are making £40-50k gross minimum, you will not be getting any extra money from working.
Even after your children start school, having a dual full-time family means that you will need either an au-pair, or an extremely flexible schedule. Neither are cheap.
Even after your children start school, having a dual full-time family means that you will need either an au-pair, or an extremely flexible schedule. Neither are cheap.
I'm earning just under 40K at the moment, so I'll survive...I'm not even in a long term relationship.
I had a rich boyfriend for several years and we were really serious (talked about marriage/the future/etc). At the time I recall thinking that although I would never be with someone for the money, and I loved him for him, it was nice to have that security.
Many years down the line, I am no longer with that boyfriend, and I have my own career and my own money. And I know now how immeasurably satisfying it is to have my own income and to not have to rely on a man (or anyone else). Plus, having my own security means that income is not something I feel a need to worry about too much when I'm thinking about prospective partners. I think if I felt I'd struggle to have kids given my own income, that would be something I'd have to consider.
Although now I have to worry about a man marrying me, then leaving and taking all my dough
Many years down the line, I am no longer with that boyfriend, and I have my own career and my own money. And I know now how immeasurably satisfying it is to have my own income and to not have to rely on a man (or anyone else). Plus, having my own security means that income is not something I feel a need to worry about too much when I'm thinking about prospective partners. I think if I felt I'd struggle to have kids given my own income, that would be something I'd have to consider.
Although now I have to worry about a man marrying me, then leaving and taking all my dough
Original post by poohat
If you want to work while having pre-school children, the first £20k (after tax) of whatever you earn will go on childcare. Unless you are making £40-50k gross minimum, you will not be getting any extra money from working.
Even after your children start school, having two full-time workers in the family means that you will need either an au-pair, or an extremely flexible schedule. Neither are cheap. By the time you net things out, you will find that you are barely doing better financially than if you stayed at home.
The point is that while women in their 20s generally insist they want careers, things tend to change after they have children. Maybe you will be different, who knows.
Even after your children start school, having two full-time workers in the family means that you will need either an au-pair, or an extremely flexible schedule. Neither are cheap. By the time you net things out, you will find that you are barely doing better financially than if you stayed at home.
The point is that while women in their 20s generally insist they want careers, things tend to change after they have children. Maybe you will be different, who knows.
Thankfully, flexible working is becoming more prevalent. I know a married couple at work who have a kid and they each work 3 days a week (they're pretty successful so that's enough for them). I think they have a pretty good arrangement! Working from home a day a week is quite common at my firm as well.
I don't need a rich boyfriend just someone who earns 200k a year
Congratulations
Original post by Anonymous
Would you say that women have developed a culture of dependency where they solely rely on men rather than getting the education they need and develop the skills they need to be successful?
I think there's a fair few aspects of the older 'paternalistic' culture that frankly women actually like and enjoy because it benefits them.
As selfish creatures we humans find it difficult to let go of things that benefit us.
Woman wanted rid of all the downsides to paternalism but aren't so eager to lose the positives such as in your example, it being more socially acceptable for a woman to desire a rich and successful man to pay her way through life.
At least we're slowly but surely trying to do away with that, a good lot of women these days would be offended by any man suggesting she can't look out for herself financially.
For those women that still want this though, there are still men keen on this concept, and yes even rich and successful men. Just as you will find women who still want to play the role of traditional house-wife (rarer though it may be) you'll find the men that want to play their traditional husband counterpart.
Problem is that wealth and success and the demand for it means that these men can 'buy' some 'high quality partners' so you really do need to be attractive and those other perks. Potato-faced slobs with bad habits need not apply.
I think times have changed.( Though my grand mother certainly worked and she had a lot of children - needs must). Most women in my family have reasonably good education, have worked and continue to work after having children. Child care being managed through various schemes involving working from home, mother's helps, nurseries, relatives etc. All good experiences leading to a widening of the circle for the children.
The only 2 who have not worked after children coincidentally have no educational qualifications. On the other hand the only man who has rarely worked had a degree.
No one who has half a brain would rely on someone else for their survival financially. People can die, become sick, walk off into the sunset, emigrate etc. etc. and leave you penniless. Also the partner who is earning the dosh tends to consider it their dosh and therefore the other one rarely feels they have the freedom to spend it as they like. Earning money, doing a job well gives you a sense of fulfillment, gives you freedom of choice, is a good example of maturity and self confidence for your children.
Win win win for all concerned.
The only 2 who have not worked after children coincidentally have no educational qualifications. On the other hand the only man who has rarely worked had a degree.
No one who has half a brain would rely on someone else for their survival financially. People can die, become sick, walk off into the sunset, emigrate etc. etc. and leave you penniless. Also the partner who is earning the dosh tends to consider it their dosh and therefore the other one rarely feels they have the freedom to spend it as they like. Earning money, doing a job well gives you a sense of fulfillment, gives you freedom of choice, is a good example of maturity and self confidence for your children.
Win win win for all concerned.
I want a boyfriend who earns similarly to me. I'm studying medicine, so should do okay, and would want that in a partner too.
I do think it's unfair when women expect men to earn all the money, but also want equality.
I do think it's unfair when women expect men to earn all the money, but also want equality.
Original post by SophieSmall
Does money matter in relationships?
Not to me it doesn't. I never want to rely on a man for money, I'm a grown woman I can and should take care of myself and it is selfish and sexist for me to expect a man to pay for me purely on the basis that he has a penis.
Not to me it doesn't. I never want to rely on a man for money, I'm a grown woman I can and should take care of myself and it is selfish and sexist for me to expect a man to pay for me purely on the basis that he has a penis.
To want to be able to take care of yourself is not mutually exclusive with thinking money matters. Would you want to take care of and pay for your partner either?
Original post by joker12345
To want to be able to take care of yourself is not mutually exclusive with thinking money matters. Would you want to take care of and pay for your partner either?
I wouldn't mind being the bread winner so long as my partner at least did something even if a low paid job or volunteering
Original post by Clip
But as a rational person, consider the following:
Assume you marry.
Assume you marry someone of at least equal capabilty to yourself.
Assume that this person has a high income - over £200,000 pa.
Assume that the work you do is rewarding financially, but has drawbacks in terms of time, conditions, personalities.
Assuming that you're a graduate, none of these are unreasonable, and is not an uncommon scenario.
Given this, would you continue to work, or would you have a leisurely life if the male partner can adequately more than provide for the both of you?
Given that you are rational.
Assume you marry.
Assume you marry someone of at least equal capabilty to yourself.
Assume that this person has a high income - over £200,000 pa.
Assume that the work you do is rewarding financially, but has drawbacks in terms of time, conditions, personalities.
Assuming that you're a graduate, none of these are unreasonable, and is not an uncommon scenario.
Given this, would you continue to work, or would you have a leisurely life if the male partner can adequately more than provide for the both of you?
Given that you are rational.
I was at the house of one of our senior partner the other day. He's been bossing 7 figures for years but his wife still works as a teacher.
She says she'd get bored at home, that work isn't that stressful when you know you could jack it tomorrow and be fine and that she doesn't want to totally depend on him for even basic needs, just the extra stuff.
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