Who's had the vaccination?

(Original post by Oxford Mum) - It's better than getting Covid.

Really? Yet 80%+ of Covid cases see NO symptoms at all and many other cases only mild symptoms.
If you get Covid this way you then have very strong and long lasting natural immunity which will far outlast vaccine immunity imo which will undoubtedly see you having to go through this entire undesirable vaccination procedure again this Autumn (for booster shots) and again every subsequent year.
What you perhaps mean is that getting vaccinated is better than getting serious Covid illness but then young people are at very little risk of getting such illness.


(Original post by Oxford Mum) - These feelings are just temporary.

For most perhaps yes. For some there could be lasting side effects and there still remains the real possibility that many could be affected by long term side effects which won't become apparent for years as the vaccines have NOT been tested for long term safety. They remain a compete gamble. For the very vulnerable "at risk" categories I appreciate that gamble makes some sense. For young people who are at extremely low risk of getting serious Covid illness let alone dying from it, I can't see the justification. It remains a fact that these vaccines DO NOT have regular vaccine safety authorisation. They only have special Emergency Usage Authorisation because we are in a pandemic and some people need to take that gamble.

(Original post by Oxford Mum) - I felt empowered and filled with hope when I got mine.

I can't see how anyone can feel "empowered" after getting vaccinated. You might still not be fully protected as 1 in 10 people who are vaccinated will not be since the vaccines are only 90% effective. Your response to the vaccine is individual, everyone responds differently, some well, some not well, it depends of the state of your immune system and overall health. The vaccines are not any kind of magic bullet.

Plus, despite being vaccinated you will still be subjected to swab testing in various life situations because vaccination is not a guarantee that you can't carry Covid and spread it to others. You will also still be required to wear masks and to social distance despite having had your jab. So really how are you possibly empowered? In fact you are no different to anyone else. You just have protection against serious Covid illness but that was only ever a risk if you were already in poor health and in the "at risk" categories.

In the end the brutal truth is that vaccination should help you not to get serious Covid illness when the virus inevitably comes your way and that's a great thing for all those people who are vulnerable and "at risk". The down side is that the Pharma industry is undoubtedly going to engineer things so that you are required to accept (and pay for) yearly Covid shots just as they do with Flu shots. Such a situation for me would bring into great doubt the effectiveness of the vaccines (if their immunity effect cant even last one year what's the point?). Natural immunity is believed to be very long lasting and has been proven to last many years in respect of other viruses of the Coronavirus family. It also massively reduces re-infection rates:

Natural Immunity To Covid Reduces Re-infection by 91%
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6978889&highlight=natural+immunity&page=2&p=94679066#post94679066


I personally don't believe in having yearly vaccinations for such things as Flu and independent systematic reviews of Flu vaccines have shown that you need to vaccinate 71 people just to prevent 1 case of Flu which is frankly ridiculous.

https://www.cochrane.org/CD001269/ARI_vaccines-prevent-influenza-healthy-adults


Bottom line remains which is that young people are at incredibly low risk of getting serious Covid illness in the first place.
80%+ of Covid cases see no symptoms at all
A further percentage of cases only see mild symptoms
99%+ of people survive covid
Young people have more chance of dying in a car accident than from Covid

As it stands today the number of "Covid Deaths" (and we all know by now that many of those were not caused by Covid) in the UK is 148,125

There are 67 million people in the UK, so after a year of pandemic only 0.2% of the population have died and many of those were not specifically caused by Covid, they were deaths WITH Covid. The vast majority of those deaths have been in the very elderly and vulnerable demographic with multiple underlying health conditions. Most if not all of that remaining demographic has now been vaccinated.

Clearly it should be obvious that I personally won't be getting vaccinated with vaccines that are not fully tested. Which in turn means I won't be plugged into the inevitable situation of having to have yearly shots and booster shots like a "vaccine junkie". This said I fully support and understand why the elderly, vulnerable and at risk people are getting vaccinated. They are at increased risk and it's the best way forward for them.

For the young and healthy it's an entirely different risk assessment and I understand why so many will not be getting vaccinated. They will be in good company because over 40% of care home workers also won't be getting vaccinated:

https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/73a0cfce/files/uploaded/Social%20Care%20and%20the%20Covid-19%20Vaccine%20Rapid%20Survey%20Report%20Dec2020%20FINAL.pdf

and over HALF the entire population of France doesn't want to be vaccinated either.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2021/jan/11/vaccine-scepticism-in-france-reflects-dissatisfaction-with-political-class

There's a great deal of clever propaganda going on at the moment trying to cajole people into taking the vaccines. The reality is that many millions of people will not be getting vaccinated and for very sound reasons imho.

100% agree with what you’ve commented, especially about the ‘empowered’ bs. The government have already admitted that booster shots will be needed for recipients of the AstraZeneca vaccine as it is far less effective in preventing serious illness for the elderly for new variants. There have also been over 40 reports of brain blood clots alone in the U.K. in the days after receiving AZ vaccine. In all honesty, I think I will be refusing to get it if it’s AZ.

Really? Yet 80%+ of Covid cases see NO symptoms at all and many other cases only mild symptoms.
If you get Covid this way you then have very strong and long lasting natural immunity which will far outlast vaccine immunity imo which will undoubtedly see you having to go through this entire undesirable vaccination procedure again this Autumn (for booster shots) and again every subsequent year.
What you perhaps mean is that getting vaccinated is better than getting serious Covid illness but then young people are at very little risk of getting such illness.


(Original post by Oxford Mum) - These feelings are just temporary.

For most perhaps yes. For some there could be lasting side effects and there still remains the real possibility that many could be affected by long term side effects which won't become apparent for years as the vaccines have NOT been tested for long term safety. They remain a compete gamble. For the very vulnerable "at risk" categories I appreciate that gamble makes some sense. For young people who are at extremely low risk of getting serious Covid illness let alone dying from it, I can't see the justification. It remains a fact that these vaccines DO NOT have regular vaccine safety authorisation. They only have special Emergency Usage Authorisation because we are in a pandemic and some people need to take that gamble.

(Original post by Oxford Mum) - I felt empowered and filled with hope when I got mine.

I can't see how anyone can feel "empowered" after getting vaccinated. You might still not be fully protected as 1 in 10 people who are vaccinated will not be since the vaccines are only 90% effective. Your response to the vaccine is individual, everyone responds differently, some well, some not well, it depends of the state of your immune system and overall health. The vaccines are not any kind of magic bullet.

Plus, despite being vaccinated you will still be subjected to swab testing in various life situations because vaccination is not a guarantee that you can't carry Covid and spread it to others. You will also still be required to wear masks and to social distance despite having had your jab. So really how are you possibly empowered? In fact you are no different to anyone else. You just have protection against serious Covid illness but that was only ever a risk if you were already in poor health and in the "at risk" categories.

In the end the brutal truth is that vaccination should help you not to get serious Covid illness when the virus inevitably comes your way and that's a great thing for all those people who are vulnerable and "at risk". The down side is that the Pharma industry is undoubtedly going to engineer things so that you are required to accept (and pay for) yearly Covid shots just as they do with Flu shots. Such a situation for me would bring into great doubt the effectiveness of the vaccines (if their immunity effect cant even last one year what's the point?). Natural immunity is believed to be very long lasting and has been proven to last many years in respect of other viruses of the Coronavirus family. It also massively reduces re-infection rates:

Natural Immunity To Covid Reduces Re-infection by 91%
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6978889&highlight=natural+immunity&page=2&p=94679066#post94679066


I personally don't believe in having yearly vaccinations for such things as Flu and independent systematic reviews of Flu vaccines have shown that you need to vaccinate 71 people just to prevent 1 case of Flu which is frankly ridiculous.

https://www.cochrane.org/CD001269/ARI_vaccines-prevent-influenza-healthy-adults


Bottom line remains which is that young people are at incredibly low risk of getting serious Covid illness in the first place.
80%+ of Covid cases see no symptoms at all
A further percentage of cases only see mild symptoms
99%+ of people survive covid
Young people have more chance of dying in a car accident than from Covid

As it stands today the number of "Covid Deaths" (and we all know by now that many of those were not caused by Covid) in the UK is 148,125

There are 67 million people in the UK, so after a year of pandemic only 0.2% of the population have died and many of those were not specifically caused by Covid, they were deaths WITH Covid. The vast majority of those deaths have been in the very elderly and vulnerable demographic with multiple underlying health conditions. Most if not all of that remaining demographic has now been vaccinated.

Clearly it should be obvious that I personally won't be getting vaccinated with vaccines that are not fully tested. Which in turn means I won't be plugged into the inevitable situation of having to have yearly shots and booster shots like a "vaccine junkie". This said I fully support and understand why the elderly, vulnerable and at risk people are getting vaccinated. They are at increased risk and it's the best way forward for them.

For the young and healthy it's an entirely different risk assessment and I understand why so many will not be getting vaccinated. They will be in good company because over 40% of care home workers also won't be getting vaccinated:

https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/73a0cfce/files/uploaded/Social%20Care%20and%20the%20Covid-19%20Vaccine%20Rapid%20Survey%20Report%20Dec2020%20FINAL.pdf

and over HALF the entire population of France doesn't want to be vaccinated either.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2021/jan/11/vaccine-scepticism-in-france-reflects-dissatisfaction-with-political-class

There's a great deal of clever propaganda going on at the moment trying to cajole people into taking the vaccines. The reality is that many millions of people will not be getting vaccinated and for very sound reasons imho.

The vaccine was tested on animals so as a vegan and animal rights activist I will not be taking the vaccine.

1. Even if you have mild/no symptoms you can still get long covid. So young people who have no symptoms could still develop heart problems in the future, for example.

2. The side effects experienced after the vaccine are not a disease, they are your immune system reacting to the vaccine. Not everyone has side effects, and that doesn't mean the vaccine isn't working, but if you have side effects like fever, aches, chills, then that is just your immune system. It feels horrible, but your life isn't in danger like it is when you have actual covid, because your body is under attack from real covid, not the vaccine.

3. Anyone can die from covid. Yes, it is more likely if you are old or vulnerable, but children with no comorbidities have also died. Even if it was only one group that died, why would you not want to help prevent that? Which brings me on to my next point:

4. Herd immunity. Lots of vulnerable people can't have the vaccine because their condition prevents it. Only by having the rest of the population vaccinated and thereby reducing transmission will these people be protected. And like you say, you can still get the virus if you have had the vaccine, though it is MUCH less likely, and having everyone vaccinated will reduce the spread and make it much safer.

5. Of course we still have to wear masks. It is protecting OTHER people. Yeah, if you've had the vaccine you may get asymptomatic covid rather than full blown covid, but you may still be able to transmit it to others. Until the majority of the population has had the vaccine, we cannot completely ease the pandemic restrictions. So if you want to be able to take of your mask eventually, then have the vaccine and encourage others to do so. And in terms of still having to be swabbed, you will have to do that whether or not you have had the vaccine, but you are more likely to be prevented from doing things because you are more likely to get covid if you haven't been vaccinated. And international travel will require you to show that you have been vaccinated. And the swabs take less than 2 minutes and aren't that bad, hardly an inconvenience.

6. The vaccine is safe. It has been tested in the same way that any other vaccine would be, just over a shorter time scale. This means trials going on in tandem rather than one after the other, so the length of the trials themselves were still sufficient. The emergency use authorisation is partly to allow everyone to get the vaccine, because they don't want to give people unnecessary drugs, but this one IS necessary. And in terms of long term effects, the vaccine is transient, it will be broken down by your body pretty soon after you develop immunity, the only thing that will remain is the antibodies. If you want to talk about long term effects, look at the long term effects of covid (even in asymptomatic people).

7. "only" 90% effective?! That's amazing coverage! Almost no vaccines are that effective! And then you say that covid reduces re-infection by 91%. So... the same number as the vaccine? And some of the vaccines are 95% effective.

8. We don't know how long immunity acquired through contact with the actual virus will last. The reason we need yearly flu vaccines is because it mutates so quickly. Covid already has several strains, and we don't know whether 'natural' immunity will protect against them, just as we aren't certain if the vaccines will. Having so many hosts may enable the virus to mutate quicker than other coronaviruses. Also the common cold can be caused by a coronavirus. Anyone here immune to common colds? No, because they mutate so quickly.

9. "wE aLl KnOw ThAt mAnY oF tHoSe DeAtHs WeRe NoT cAuSeD bY cOvId." No. Yes, some of these people died from other things, but often those other things shouldn't have killed them (at least yet), but it did because they also had covid. Covid played a role in all of those deaths. It doesn't count if you have covid and then got shot in the head, those numbers aren't included. Most of those deaths would not have happened if covid wasn't around.

10. What the hell is a vaccine junkie. That's not real. You cannot become addicted to vaccines, it's impossible, that's not how it works. Yes, people have vaccines every year, because they are GOOD FOR YOU and help society. I don't call people vegetable junkies if they eat their 5 a day. You can stop having the vaccine at any point, nobody can force you, though it is highly advisable that you have them. You may not be able to do certain things without having had the vaccine, like travel, but as long as you're happy with that and don't mind putting yourself and others at risk then go for it, at the end of the day it's your choice.

11. There is no evidence that natural immunity lasts longer than immunity due to the vaccine. Covid has been around less than a year. We just don't know how long immunity for either of these will last, but probably if you get covid, you can probably get it again in the future as the virus mutates. See point 8.

To conclude, vaccines are safe, we need higher levels of vaccination for herd immunity, anybody of any age and health can die of covid, and long covid is real and dangerous. I had more points in my original response to this poster but that was on the app and it didn't post for some reason.

If anyone is interested, my undergraduate was in biology, my masters was also biology related, and I currently work in a patient facing role looking after elderly people in an acute NHS hospital. I am due to have my second vaccine in April and I am looking forward to it. Side effects will suck but they are only a few days and the benefits massively outweigh the risks.

Stay safe everyone

What a great post. I wish I could rep it a thousand times.

I can remember my younger son (medic) coming home for the holidays at Easter 2020.

He said that younger people could get it and the symptoms were so mild they may not even know they had it. Immediately, I thought uh-oh... so they could be going out and about and unwittingly spreading the virus.

Therefore, if you are young, it would make sense to get this (overwhelmingly harmless) vaccine, not only for your own sake but for the sake of the shelf stacker in the supermarket, or the taxi driver, or the university tutor you may unwittingly infect in the future if you don't.

Got offered, refused.

all of your pseudo scientific posts are backed by false data... goodness knows what your real agenda is

smh

So can you be specific about which data you are disputing? Could you also educate us on the long term side effects studies of which will be extensive on these ‘vaccines’. Many Thanks. Ps please could you also enlighten us on the efficacy of Ivermectin as a prophylactic and treatment.