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Original post by SoNottingH
I'm not sure. Is it different for women than men? Perhaps you can only change the class of your children from your own really. I mean, if you are working class and then make a lot of money, I suppose you are still basically working class? However, your children could be sent to private school and a good university and become middle class.


Yeah I think I would agree with that :smile:
I've been in private/public education all my life and there are a lot of rahs about, but if you go out and socialise as much as you can you'll find someone in the same situation as you or just generally nice and not snobbish people, good luck.
Reply 122
Use the opportunity to get somewhere. The public school kids needed all that help and all that money from their parents to get themselves to the uni you're attending. You did it with a state school. Now that you're on level terms at uni, think how much further you can go than them.

I'm going to uni this year and I know I'll be at a uni with lots of public school, posh kids and I am on the opposite end of the spectrum. But I don't really care, people aren't as judgemental as you think and they won't treat you that different just because of your social class. It's just about you feeling comfortable with your social class, it was one you were brought up in by the way, kids don't choose their social class..
Reply 123
I know the OP said they go to Exeter, but Durham has been mentioned loads too by other posters. I'm really worried to go there next year now (grades permitting)... I was really looking forward to it but everyone seems to really hate Durham and especially Durham students. Oh :frown:
I am actually an Oxford reject but I'm really not bitter about it in the slightest - I clearly wasn't right/good enough for Oxford and I totally appreciate that, they will have made the right decision.
Reply 124
Original post by redferry
Yeah you are more middle class than I am...

Sorry to break it to you but in a 7 bedroom house plus other properties and your dad owning a business you are more likely to be upper middle class than upper working class.
You aren't working class, sorry if that is what you aspire to :s-smilie:
There is nothing wrong with being middle class, as I said to the OP embrace your background! You have nothing to be embarrassed of!!


embarrassed? i want to be upper class lol

i just think because i go public school, live in a average/ under average area plus have a bit of a cockney accent i cant be middle class
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 125
Original post by _Izzy
I know the OP said they go to Exeter, but Durham has been mentioned loads too by other posters. I'm really worried to go there next year now (grades permitting)... I was really looking forward to it but everyone seems to really hate Durham and especially Durham students. Oh :frown:
I am actually an Oxford reject but I'm really not bitter about it in the slightest - I clearly wasn't right/good enough for Oxford and I totally appreciate that, they will have made the right decision.


Durham is a class uni. In all aspects sport/socially/academically and most importantly with helping you to secure the job you want afterwards. Ignore all the crap that people write on TSR about Durham.
Reply 126
Original post by Hackett
Durham is a class uni. In all aspects sport/socially/academically and most importantly with helping you to secure the job you want afterwards. Ignore all the crap that people write on TSR about Durham.


Okay :smile: Thank you. There just seems to be so much emphasis on the Durham stereotype which can be a bit off-putting although it probably isn't all true, as you say.

Are you at Durham?
In my experience posh/rich people aren't so bad. They'll be different but we're all human, I have a range of friends from the horse-riding, Burberry wearing people at school, to people who don't have nice houses or designer clothes, and I get on with all of them, so I'm sure if you give them a chance it'll be fine.
In response to the OP, I think it's a difficult situation that has been antagonised by steep class divisions at a University that is renowned for his class divisiveness (and I say this as someone whose insurance is Exeter, so I don't think I'm being overly critical).

You need to be willing to fully socialise with people that are a bit different from you. If the things that they tend to do exclude you because you can't afford to bathe in Moet or shoot poor people by the country estate, take the initiative yourself and organise something else.

Presumably the Student Guild at Exeter has a bar without astronomical prices. Why don't you randomly select a few Arabellas and Henriettas from your lecture hall and invite them to enjoy £1.50 a pint and a viscously dodgy kebab afterwards?

Naturally, I don't know your situation inside out, but you seem to have trouble ingratiating yourself with pre-existing social circles. I'm sure most people at University are quite nice, and would be friendly enough if you made the effort, even if they're smothered in Jack Wills and have several horses.

Equally, it's clear that it's not easy being in your position. I think it highlights the fundamental class inequalities within the education system. It's rather disgusting that a University should be so heavily geared towards the upper-echelons of society, when education is supposed to be standardised and meritocratic.
Man, Im pretty poor, i go to LSE and i have yet to meet a single person that has gone to a comprehensive state school free meals in ****ty area etc, most either intl school, public or grammar. i mean i speak so Saaf East London its hilarious, but what really annoys me is that SOME of these ppl are pretty thick and get the best internships and jobs through their networks. Other than that i really dont care about them posh types, I used to feel out of place before, but many are nice ppl and thats all that matters to me, facing hardship is a fact of life, embrace it, you only realise when your older that it really did you good.
As someone who is looking forward to attending Exeter next year and who is probably considered upper working/lower middle in the area that I live in, I believe it's all about how you deal with it. I cannot say I was brought up on a council estate, far from it, but many of the houses that people in my year live in put mine to shame. They are generally LV-clad, Moncler wearing, 7-for-all-mankind their size 4/6 butt a-covering, 500€ bottle of vodka buying, brain-dead mummy and daddy's girls with big bright eyes weighed down by too much mascara and innocent looks. Such obvious displays of crazy wealth and their clique attitude means that they will never be friends of mine but you just have to stay polite and nice when they talk to you (well I do as I try not to judge) until of course they are actually disrespectful (in which case I think there are two options, in the case where you can shut them down with a quick nip, try it by all means if you think you are catching them off guard or simply ignore it, they are just being pathetic) and laugh about it with the normal people you eventually make friends with. (i.e in this case, your roomates?)
Also, I can tell you are angry with these types but you just have to let it go, it's the only way you'll stop resenting them and actually start trying to figure out if there are any that despite their wealth are actually decent people who have just grown up very fortunate.
About showing people where you have grown up, if they are truly your friend, they'll have even more respect for you for working hard enough to get in to a place that only seem accessible to those who made a donation.

But that's just my two-cents.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 131
Original post by JollyGreenAtheist


Equally, it's clear that it's not easy being in your position. I think it highlights the fundamental class inequalities within the education system. It's rather disgusting that a University should be so heavily geared towards the upper-echelons of society, when education is supposed to be standardised and meritocratic.


Absolutely this. Generations of taxpayers financed the development of these elite institutions. Why should they now be reserved for the children of the upper middle and upper classes only? Which is not far off what they are.
Anon, thank god for a post like this. I can't even tell you how much I relate to it.

At my school (your average comprehensive in a rough area) we were taught that if we excelled academically, we could fit in anywhere in universities - if that's so then why do we working class students feel so isolated at times?

I love my flatmates, I really, really do. They're like brothers and sisters to me. But in the back of my mind there's always the issue of not really fitting in with them. Out of my flat of ten last year I was the only working class one, the only one with divorced parents, the only one to have lived in a council house. Two went to two of the best private schools in the country, one went to a known pretentious, prestigious all boys grammar school, and three went to the best colleges in their county. This fact alone made me feel desperately different.

It's the little things that affect me. We all have the same academic ability, most of us have the same political views, we like each other and we all work well together. But going on google maps to look at our houses turns into "who has the best conservatory/jacuzzi/father's office?!" and I have to opt out because we don't have any of that. It sounds silly and trivial but it screams out so much more. The worst of it coming home to family or friends, they accuse you of being a snob, turning "posh" or "hoity toity" and all though they're joking for the most part, it really does hurt, because it adds to the idea that you don't fit in anywhere. I go to uni, I feel as rough as dirt, I go home, I feel like a snob because of certain conversations, or because some members of my family don't even see the point in university. It's hard. But you just have to push through it. I understand that my flatmates and friends at university don't see me for my class, they never bring it up and if they did why is it a bad thing? Being working class and going to a good university just shows how far we've come :smile: it's easier (not easy, granted) to get into a good university with personal tutor's and private schools and daddy's promise of a decent car if you get good grades, but without that, we are left with something much more promising - personal motivation. It would have been SO much easier for me to have got a job, student loans are ridiculously tight for students whose parents cannot afford to pay their way at university, the work is tough and EVERYBODY seems much more educated than you - but you're here, you survived the tough life of a working class child in 21st century (and it is tough, for anyone annoying enough to start bleating "NOT IN THIS DAY AND AGE IT ISN'T". The very fact you're living the university dream shows you've got somewhere, you've worked hard with few resources and only yourself to motivate you - it screams strong, so be proud :smile: and I'll be proud too.
Reply 133
Original post by xelarose


The worst of it coming home to family or friends, they accuse you of being a snob, turning "posh" or "hoity toity" and all though they're joking for the most part, it really does hurt, because it adds to the idea that you don't fit in anywhere.


Completely identify with this - the thing about being accepted in neither worlds, and damned if you do, damned if you don't. My own brothers kind of distance themselves from me, because they are still doing working class jobs, as they see it, whilst I do what they see as "middle class" work, eg, working in a university office.

One thing to realise is that a lot of working class people are angry, even if they don't show it, and they tend to channel that anger at each other rather than what should be the object of their anger, the political and economic structure, which is hostile to our class.

I genuinely think that working class people can do more and make better use of a good university than many of the kids who are used to privilege and treat it as a sort of inevitable step on the natural ladder of progress that they are entitled to, with only minimal effort on their part. I realise that's an exaggeration, but I did frequently detect a lazy attitude to the course and to the concepts behind the course in my degree at an RG uni from the "posh" element - their main concern was the next skiing trip, or which internship at a bank they were hoping to get, not the actual content of the education. Maybe its better than that at the very top unis where academic achievement in and of itself is considered paramount.
Original post by xelarose
Anon, thank god for a post like this. I can't even tell you how much I relate to it.

At my school (your average comprehensive in a rough area) we were taught that if we excelled academically, we could fit in anywhere in universities - if that's so then why do we working class students feel so isolated at times?

I love my flatmates, I really, really do. They're like brothers and sisters to me. But in the back of my mind there's always the issue of not really fitting in with them. Out of my flat of ten last year I was the only working class one, the only one with divorced parents, the only one to have lived in a council house. Two went to two of the best private schools in the country, one went to a known pretentious, prestigious all boys grammar school, and three went to the best colleges in their county. This fact alone made me feel desperately different.

It's the little things that affect me. We all have the same academic ability, most of us have the same political views, we like each other and we all work well together. But going on google maps to look at our houses turns into "who has the best conservatory/jacuzzi/father's office?!" and I have to opt out because we don't have any of that. It sounds silly and trivial but it screams out so much more. The worst of it coming home to family or friends, they accuse you of being a snob, turning "posh" or "hoity toity" and all though they're joking for the most part, it really does hurt, because it adds to the idea that you don't fit in anywhere. I go to uni, I feel as rough as dirt, I go home, I feel like a snob because of certain conversations, or because some members of my family don't even see the point in university. It's hard. But you just have to push through it. I understand that my flatmates and friends at university don't see me for my class, they never bring it up and if they did why is it a bad thing? Being working class and going to a good university just shows how far we've come :smile: it's easier (not easy, granted) to get into a good university with personal tutor's and private schools and daddy's promise of a decent car if you get good grades, but without that, we are left with something much more promising - personal motivation. It would have been SO much easier for me to have got a job, student loans are ridiculously tight for students whose parents cannot afford to pay their way at university, the work is tough and EVERYBODY seems much more educated than you - but you're here, you survived the tough life of a working class child in 21st century (and it is tough, for anyone annoying enough to start bleating "NOT IN THIS DAY AND AGE IT ISN'T". The very fact you're living the university dream shows you've got somewhere, you've worked hard with few resources and only yourself to motivate you - it screams strong, so be proud :smile: and I'll be proud too.


I love you for this post, I have experienced being in between home and uni, and also the who has the best house thing, I was living with someone last year who OWNED a quarter share in two houses, incredible, and of course she didn't even seem to realise this was unusual!

I'm not even working-class either, I'm middle-class and I still feel like this.
Original post by yaboy
embarrassed? i want to be upper class lol

i just think because i go public school, live in a average/ under average area plus have a bit of a cockney accent i cant be middle class


You are middle class :s-smilie:
Most middle class people don't go to private school and many have accents.

You can't be upper class you have to be born into it, not sure why you would aspire to that though.

Also public school = private school, don't you mean you went to a comprehensive?
Reply 136
Oh look hun, I've been there, probably at exactly the same Uni from the sounds of it. Being away from home and adjusting to a place that on the surface is a million miles from the environment you're used to and not letting the accents, conversation and general airs people put on get to you is, at 18 years old, bloody hard work. I wallowed in complete confusion and misery for a year before I realised I had to do something about the chip on my shoulder and get to know some people who didn't seem like aliens from a completely different universe.

The fact is you can't let your perceived differences and inferiorities get in the way of what could be the most amazing, enjoyable and intellectually & socially stimulating time of your life. People naturally make friends with those with whom they have most in common. Your flatmates might be lovely but you don't have to feel some sort of social pressure to be friends with them if you don't enjoy their company. Therefore you've got to be proactive and find other opportunities to meet people who you feel more comfortable hanging out with. They do exist - in every University - although I had to change halls to find them!
Reply 137
Original post by Fires

One of the few good things I do have to say about the way Oxford and Cambridge dominate our educational system is that they at least do offer very good financial support to poorer students arriving there, enabling them to be less socially isolated than at many of the other upper universities.


?! How does chucking a mediocre grant at poorer students (while ignoring a lot of the needy middle-class) enable them to make instant friends?!

If universities really wanted to help students who are struggling to adjust, they'd be better off improving their way of putting a better mix of students together in halls. Mine put me on a floor full of 3rd years and with a roommate who had a pashmina surgically attached to her neck with whom I had nothing in common. The fact I had less spending money than her was the least of my worries.
Original post by yaboy
see i live in a 7 bedroom house (work was done to the house) dad owns a business and is in the buy to let market along with owning 3 other houses in a relatively decent if not under average area, everyone except me in the family went university and i will be going next year but i don't see my self as middle class more upper working class. Ive always seen middleclass as people who have gone private school and live in a nice area plus they would survive pretty easily if they never had an education as their parents would have them sorted.


My dad is a self employed local chartered accountant. My mum teaches maths at a state secondary school. We have a 4 bed house in a pretty rubbish area...and we are firmly middle class. My brother and I went to state grammar (non paying)...
How are you upper working? Your parents don't work in blue collar jobs. In fact if we went by historical terms you dad is a land and property owner so is upper middle.

OP...it's always going to be harder to integrate when you have different experiences to those around you but thise with priviledge have had no more choice about their background than you have. Theyve simply grown up wuth what they were given.

It upsets me a little your attitude because my dad came from true working class inner city birmingham. His mum and dad did whatever jobs they could, working the markets, glazing etc. He passed his 11+ in a time when grammar schools really were providing social mobility. He managed to go to uni though he lived at home. Through his degree and careful saving etc. my brother and I have never experienced financial hardship. Weve had holidays every year and nice cars etc. He acheived the move from working to middle class and made an amazing life for us. Should we really be begrudged that? Surely you want an easier life for your kids? One where theyre not worrying about money or food?
The people you judge around you...you don't know their family history. They may have suffered loss or discrimination, fled war zones or come from traumatic broken homes. Their parents might have sacrificed everything for their school fees but protected them so well they didnt realise it.

People dont discuss the intricacies of their lives with strangers but it doesnt mean their lives and backgrounds are perfect and priviledged.

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I lived in a council estate in east london, had police vans going to my next door neighbor 7am arresting them for murder and knew a guy who at the age of 16-17 killed my mates cousin so I know how you feel about it being hard to relate to people. There'll be friends you can find. I'm probably seen as a bit ghetto but I get along with those people(although I don't really talk to them too much)

What uni do you go to btw if you don't mind me asking?
Hopefully you'll find friends. Just gotta talk to people after lectures e.g.(if they're in the library doing work or whatever they're not going to kill you for it) and you'll find some like minded/understandable people.
(edited 11 years ago)

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